To be really really annoyed at River Island's treatment of my daughter at interview

[BadHairDyeDay]

DD17 applied for a job with RI - 8 hour contract evenings and Saturdays and would fit around school no problem. On Thursday she an email asking her to attend a "recruitment event" yesterday morning at 9.30 and to bring "proof of eligibility to work in the UK". Excellent so far.
So yesterday morning DD gets her National insurance number letter and I drop her off for the interview. As I'm walking back to the car I get a phone call from DD to say she needs either her birth certificate or her passport. I ask her what for. She says she was supposed to bring either one. I said no it was proof of eligibility to work in the UK, I.e. National insurance number. Birth certificate = proof of identity. Passport = eligibility to travel outside your own country. That was problem no 1 . Anyway RI had said she could come back at 10.30 with said documents and have interview then. So I made the half hour round trip home to fetch BC.
All fine then. But no. Problem no.2. At the end of the interview DD is asked when she can work (which she had set out in detail in her application form and was the same as the advertised position). So she tells them again and they say "Oh so you can't work XX?". DD says no. They say not at all? DD says sorry no it was in my application form and I didn't think I had to! End of interview!

So AIBU to be raging that they didn't ask for the documents they actually wanted at interview and also that we completely wasted a whole morning due to the fact that they didn't read my DD's application form properly and changed the criteria at the last minute anyway!!!!!
I have a good mind to complain to head office because that's is just plain incompetence - and in their eyes my DD looks like she is in the wrong!!!

P.S Sorry this is so long!!!

The reason that your passport is evidence of right to work in the U.K. is that it will either be evidence of absolute right (a British passport) or have a document inside it that confers right to work if the holder is of a nationality that doesn't automatically have that right.
Non eu residents have different types of visa. Some will be student or tourist (no right to work) or asylum seeker (no right to work) some will be limited leave to remain (right to work until the expiration date) and some will have indefinite leave to remain (unlimited right to work)
That's why you have to take it

"Teenagers often apply for jobs without their parents' help, so they should have been specific about what they wanted"

I agree. I think far too many posters are piling in attacking the OP about this. Until DD started applying for jobs last September I had no idea that you needed a passport to get a job. I have never been asked for one, but I have been working for the same company for many years.

All of DD's job interviewers were very specific about DD turning up with a passport and NI number, so I agree that River Island should have been more specific here.

I wouldn't complain to head office though, and just chalk it up to experience.

Did RI provide a list of acceptable documents or a link on the application form or letter inviting interview, did your DD check? They may have expected an applicant to check online. The onus is on the applicant to provide proof of eligibility to work. This includes migrant workers therefore NI number is not proof of eligibility to work. Employers can incur huge fines if they do not see proof.

As for the hours worked the application usually states fully flexible, and this means for the shop not the worker. Shops have so many applications that they are never going to filter them to the minutia of what hours your DD said she could work.

This will be typical of her experience in retail, some employers don't even acknowledge the application. I really would not complain as you will look foolish and ill prepared and it will not change the outcome.

Your DD just needs to put this down to a learning experience.

We get you Op, you do need to give your NI number when applying for work, but you don't need to take the card or letter with it on, most oldies like me know it off the top of their head. But you always need the stuff that numerous PPs have linked you too. That's just standard. If the organisation needed more they'd have specified. In my line of work I need enhanced clearances so need to produce much more.
I think the best way to deal with this is to apologise to your DD and help her learn herself how to prepare for recruitment and interviews. The flexibility question is again very standard across many fields. It's about learning how best to respond. You might have 4 kids and tightly organised childcare but you still ensure you leave them with the impression of your capacity to be flexible, offer commitment to the team, ability to respond to business needs etc etc
Despite all this, hope she gets the job and good luck to her for her next chapter!

There's no minimum age to work, so your son is eligible to work (eg as a model). And other jobs have a minimum age of 13, before you receive your NI card.

Even if you hadn't applied for a job in years, it wouldn't have been hard to google what your DD needed. Maybe the job isn't right for your DD, if they require more flexibility than she can give, but I don't think RI have done anything wrong.

Just wondering- many 17 year olds may not have a passport or driving licence as photo ID, nor a utility bill or other official letter in their name apart from NI number notification. What happens then? ( I'm old- it's years since my children applied for Saturday jobs!)

"Raging", Jesus.

you certainly have NOT needed to show a passport or proof of address for the last 25 years

I have been working since the mid 90s, and have never had a job where I didn't have to produce ID, proof of address, and all my exam certificates, even for my most badly run, rule dodging, employer.

I think the OP has probably been out of the job market for a while.

In times gone by, a retail job advertised for 8 hours/week meant exactly that: they had an eight hour shift to fill and that's what you were applying for. Nowadays a retail job advertised for 8 hours/week means that those are the minimum weekly hours, but they want you to be available for extra shifts as and when they need you.

We are required to have proof of right to work for every candidate that we interview face to face.

We are audited on this.

However we do state that this is normally a passport and to contact us in advance if they have any queries/issues about this.

TapasForTwo most posters aren’t saying the OP or daughter should have magically known. They’re saying a 20 second google would have shown what they need.

nonamehere In that case they need a Birth Certificate along with their official NI letter.

Those who insist 'it's always' been a passport or BC as proof of identity to work are as others have pointed out incorrect
Lots of people will have last applied for a job when all you needed was a NI number. The checks came only in, in 2008.
However if you are ever unsure you should always check. Part of applying for a job is being prepared so OPs daughter should chalk this one up to experience. OP needs to step back, parents rushing in to defend their kids will not help their abilities nor their job prospects. Sympathise and advise from the sidelines and let them grow from their experiences even if it's difficult to watch.

Just wondering- many 17 year olds may not have a passport or driving licence as photo ID

They can present a combination of birth certificate plus NI number letter if they don't have a passport.

it's not just about "work" either, I volunteered for a major sporting event and although we weren't getting paid, we had to prove eligibility to work/live in the UK. The day I went to pick up my accreditation pass there were Border Force officers there talking to a lot of the building contractors who couldn't show the right proof.

Everybody and their dog knows proof of eligibility to work in the UK means birth certificate or passport. Preferably both.

A simple Google search would have told her that! Lesson learned. Next time she needs to prepare better.

8 hour retail contracts normally include the expectation you will pick up additional hours over the holidays like Boxing Day etc and flexibility when new stock arrives or there is a sale coming up and you need to mark items down! You can’t work in retail and not be flexible.

*only came in

"Teenagers often apply for jobs without their parents' help, so they should have been specific about what they wanted"

They were specific about it - they wanted proof of right to work in the UK.

A quick google would have told her what that proof was in about five seconds!

I think you misunderstood on the documents. Passport is almost universally needed these days.

On the flexible hours bit, I agree it’s annoying. I had the same thing as a teenager 20years ago though. Getting a truly Saturday job is actually quite hard which is why many teenagers who are focused on school struggle to find a job that fits in with coursework. It’s possible, but often smaller companies are better in my experience.

I guess you haven't job hunt for a while? I can't imagine they would look thoroughly your DD's application and fit around her preferred hours. You have to remember you won't get the same treatment as being their customer.

I always use passport for all my job applications.

I think complaining to the Head Office will not do anything but worth a try to see what respond you get. I wouldn't mention your daughter's name though.

I think probably best to toughen up the whole job interview thing, when you have all these graduates spent tens of thousands of £s for their degree and got no where after tens of job applications/interviews you will realise this is just the tip of the iceberg...

Good luck to your DD.

Just wondering- many 17 year olds may not have a passport or driving licence as photo ID, nor a utility bill or other official letter in their name apart from NI number notification. What happens then? ( I'm old- it's years since my children applied for Saturday jobs!)

They have birther certificates? And the letter with NI as proof of address? Do they back accounts?

Alot of younger people, that I know applied for their provisional driving licence as soon as they could. Just before you turn 17. Even if not planning on having lessons, so they had ID.

I have every sympathy OP. This is a young girl applying for her first job, that has never been through the system before.

Employers need to be wholly specific in their instructions regarding what documentation is required.

I would absolutely give them feedback

@BogglesGoggles

Fair enough, I did realise that.
Having looked at Gov. UK website, I see it stated that minimum age for part time work otherwise, is 13. Which still shows that OP 's assertion is still incorrect.

On a slightly different, but related matter, I do wonder whether there should be a national 🆔 card which would cover this situation? Not everybody has a passport (or photograph drivers licence) and a national 🆔 card would make this sort of situation so much easier to negotiate.

@BadHairDyeDay perhaps instead of being raging and emailing head office (really bad idea by the way, you didn't apply for a job your daughter did) you should use that time to sit with your daughter and go through the checklists showing what you need to prove right to work.
You are being very naive if you think that any retail job will be a rigid set shift pattern. They will have been asking if she was able to cover other shifts ever. If the said can you do a Sunday and she said no never then she will be seen as inflexible. Whereas if she were to say that not on a regular basis but she could during school holidays then she would be seen as a much better bet in terms of employment.

The problem is 8 hours doesn’t actually ever mean 8 hours. Since all the controversy over zero hours contracts, employers now seem to just make up a low figure instead.

This time last year my daughter was looking for full time work in retail, hospitality, catering type jobs and there was literally nothing available. She does now work more or less full time in a shop (large chain), but her contract says 4 hours a week. In busy periods she’s fine but when it’s quiet she’s screwed. She’s also expected to be fully flexible and available to work any hours the store is open. That’s the reality of unskilled and low-skilled employment these days.

I agree with that national ID card. We have one where I am from. You use it to prove who you are and address at the same time. Without that Id you will not get a loan or anything, which also helps with identity theft.

A birth certificate or a passport does not prove your eligibility to work in the UK. E.g my son has both and he can't work - because he is too young!

Erm, both would show that he is too young and therefore NOT eligible to work in the UK .

The guidelines are set by the government and at least two pps have posted the link that you or your DD could have found yourselves with a quick google search. Far better to double check and confirm than to assume and then be indignantly raging instead of just admitting your own mistake.

So for this YABVU.

In regards hours, yes RI were might have been a bit unreasonable to ask whether your DD could do different hours to those advertised, but you don't know whether their requirements have changed since they posted the advert (ie someone may have left etc) so in that respect they weren't really being that unreasonable to ask the question.

What we don't know is whether your DD was being unreasonable in refusing as you've not answered the question about what they actually asked her to do - as others have said in school time then that's ridiculous but sundays/bank holidays/weekdays during school holidays then your DD was unreasonable to refuse really.