To urge you to teach your children to be genuinely inclusive, not just polite?

[gingerginger2]

My kids are back at school this week (Scotland) and after a summer of seeing them without the context of their peers it’s a sadness again to see them interacting with other children.

On their own, they are sweet, silly, funny, kind, playful, interesting, creative, chatty. They are part of the world, full of wonder and learning and play.

But in the context of kids their age, they are different. They both have learning disabilities and dyspraxia.

They don’t know this though, they don’t quite realise they are “different” yet. They are little, they learn slowly, despite the constant lessons from society’s exclusions. They run up to their “friends” in such a carefree happy way, eager to talk, play, connect. It doesn’t seem to occur to them not to.

And when they do they mainly encounter silence. Uncomfortable polite looks. Or polite confused monosyllabic mumbles followed by eager escapes into actual easy friendships groups. Or at best a short conversation in a humouring tone, a tone learnt by imitating the tones adults take with small silly children.

There’s not really any unkindness. There’s just a refusal to actually engage, to get to know, to connect. An embarrassment and unwillingness to spend time with my children’s lack of social skills, messy clothes, an uncomfortableness at their invasion of their personal space. So a brief hello before getting on with actual friendships and relationships and life. An obvious desire to politely not engage. A smile with the lips not the eyes.

I’m amazed they don’t seem to realise that they’ve been snubbed again. But they din’t Mainly. Learning disability means everything is hard to learn I guess. But it’ heartbreaking to see they just carry on and continue to fling themselves at people, wide open, encountering boundaries wherever they go. I worry that soon they’ll start to realise and feel the pain of these rejections.

I worry too that maybe they do feel the pain. Maybe it goes somewhere deep, and maybe they are learning day by day that people don’t like them. That society isn’t for them.

I hate it.

Please can you teach your children to be more than polite and kind to their peers with disabilities? Please can you urge them to actually get to know them, to actually connect and include them? Even when they are messy, annoying, noisy and a bit weird. Even then?

I have a relative with profound disabilities, and he is very strong, with no sense at all of when someone wants physical contact. He can lash out and claw and strike people when he gets distressed. He has a mental age far lower than his actual age. If my DD is at school with a child with similar needs and she is not allowed to use her judgement about how close she wants to be, she is at risk. That is a fact.

That isn’t saying anyone is “predatory”. How ridiculous

The predatory comment was relating to the part in my post copy and pasted from another poster. Not ridiculous at all.

Sometimes their behaviour will be unsafe, won’t it? Like sometimes the behaviour of children without SN will be unsafe. Sometimes their behaviour will make other children feel uncomfortable, which is just as true of children without SN. And sometimes the behaviour will be linked with their SN, because they may not understand - for example - when it is appropriate to hug and when it isn’t

That’s where as parents we educate our own children that sometimes other children behave differently to them and what do and how to react when they might do something that makes them feel uncomfortable. Instead of telling them it’s ok not to be friends with them or include them.

That’s where as parents we educate our own children that sometimes other children behave differently to them and what do and how to react when they might do something that makes them feel uncomfortable. Instead of telling them it’s ok not to be friends with them or include them.

So you are literally saying to me that it isn’t okay to tell me DD that she can walk away when someone’s behaviour makes her feel unsafe or uncomfortable? Really?

I have a relative with profound disabilities, and he is very strong, with no sense at all of when someone wants physical contact. He can lash out and claw and strike people when he gets distressed. He has a mental age far lower than his actual age. If my DD is at school with a child with similar needs and she is not allowed to use her judgement about how close she wants to be, she is at risk. That is a fact

Your NT child is not going to be at school with someone with profound disabilities though is she?

Your NT child is not going to be at school with someone with profound disabilities though is she?

In my last school there was a child I would have placed in that category. They participated in some but not all lessons. Their behaviour was unpredictable, sometimes violent, often distressed. Other young people did not feel safe around them. So I think it is more likely than you think. And I will not be telling my DD that she has to be friends with someone who makes her feel unsafe. She isn’t responsible for anyone at school but herself.

So you are literally saying to me that it isn’t okay to tell me DD that she can walk away when someone’s behaviour makes her feel unsafe or uncomfortable? Really?

Have I actually said that? No. I it’s out job as parents to educate our children regarding other children, other people that they will no doubt come across in their life with disabilities and how to react instead of teaching them that the first thing they should do is walk away.

In your last school? Someone in mainstream school with profound disabilities? The same as your relative?

No. I it’s out job as parents to educate our children regarding other children, other people that they will no doubt come across in their life with disabilities and how to react instead of teaching them that the first thing they should do is walk away.

Again, in order to be in agreement with you, I have to teach my child not to walk away from someone whose behaviour is distressing them or making them feel unsafe?

I won’t do that.

In your last school? Someone in mainstream school with profound disabilities? The same as your relative?

Not the same, no. Everyone is different. But this child had a high level of need.

Amazing. Making an effort with disabled kids is a slippery slope to being a victim of sexual assault, apparently.

The obsession with personal space and discomfort on this thread is such a deflection and you know it.

Again, in order to be in agreement with you, I have to teach my child not to walk away from someone whose behaviour is distressing them or making them feel unsafe?

FFS - we aren’t talking about distressing or unsafe behaviour. Do you think the only disabled kids who are excluded are those whose behaviour is distressing or unsafe?

You’ve obviously got a bee in your bonnet about this Hercule. I really hope after yesterday you’d have softened a little, read through everyone’s posts and reflected on your approach to the OP and taken her words on board. Obviously this isn’t the case which is a damn shame.

Let’s hope your DD doesn’t ever come across someone with SN or disabilities, for their sakes.

FFS - we aren’t talking about distressing or unsafe behaviour. Do you think the only disabled kids who are excluded are those whose behaviour is distressing or unsafe?

But we are talking about behaviour that makes my child feel uncomfortable or unsafe. That doesn’t mean you would always agree with her that the behaviour is distressing or unsafe. But if she feels that it is, what should she do?

You’ve obviously got a bee in your bonnet about this Hercule.

No bee. I don’t need to “soften” because I have not expressed any “hardness”. I have nothing but sympathy for children whose difficulties make friendships hard.

I don’t think Hercule has said anything wrong. She hasn’t said she would be mean to a disabled child or teach her kids to deliberately exclude anyone

Have you read all of her posts?
She has said throughout the thread that if her DD didn’t want to be friends with someone for whatever reason then she wouldn’t force them.

She has said throughout the thread that if her DD didn’t want to be friends with someone for whatever reason then she wouldn’t force them.

And you would force them? You would invite a child to your home for play dates when your own child disliked them? You would invite them to birthday parties? Don’t you think that’s unwise?

She has said throughout the thread that if her DD didn’t want to be friends with someone for whatever reason then she wouldn’t force them.

Is that particularly controversial? She can’t force a friendship and nor should she try.

Mine has Downs this is 100% accurate out of 180 kids in y11 only a small handful treat her as a peer

I think that’s fair enough. I wouldn’t force my children to be friends with anyone.

If they were expressing racist/sexist/disabilist sentiments, I’d explain why that was completely unacceptable and know to reinforce that until I thought they’d got it but wouldn’t force them to be friends. Which isn’t to say I’d tolerate them being rude or leave anyone out in a group situation but that’s different to forcing them to be friends.

Butchyrestingface have you rtft? Did you then miss the posts from her saying if her DD didn’t want to be friends with a black child because of the colour of her skin she wouldn’t do anything about it?

Did you then miss the posts from her saying if her DD didn’t want to be friends with a black child because of the colour of her skin she wouldn’t do anything about it?

Woah. I didn’t say I wouldn’t do anything about it. I said I wouldn’t force them to make friends.