To urge you to teach your children to be genuinely inclusive, not just polite?

[gingerginger2]

My kids are back at school this week (Scotland) and after a summer of seeing them without the context of their peers it’s a sadness again to see them interacting with other children.

On their own, they are sweet, silly, funny, kind, playful, interesting, creative, chatty. They are part of the world, full of wonder and learning and play.

But in the context of kids their age, they are different. They both have learning disabilities and dyspraxia.

They don’t know this though, they don’t quite realise they are “different” yet. They are little, they learn slowly, despite the constant lessons from society’s exclusions. They run up to their “friends” in such a carefree happy way, eager to talk, play, connect. It doesn’t seem to occur to them not to.

And when they do they mainly encounter silence. Uncomfortable polite looks. Or polite confused monosyllabic mumbles followed by eager escapes into actual easy friendships groups. Or at best a short conversation in a humouring tone, a tone learnt by imitating the tones adults take with small silly children.

There’s not really any unkindness. There’s just a refusal to actually engage, to get to know, to connect. An embarrassment and unwillingness to spend time with my children’s lack of social skills, messy clothes, an uncomfortableness at their invasion of their personal space. So a brief hello before getting on with actual friendships and relationships and life. An obvious desire to politely not engage. A smile with the lips not the eyes.

I’m amazed they don’t seem to realise that they’ve been snubbed again. But they din’t Mainly. Learning disability means everything is hard to learn I guess. But it’ heartbreaking to see they just carry on and continue to fling themselves at people, wide open, encountering boundaries wherever they go. I worry that soon they’ll start to realise and feel the pain of these rejections.

I worry too that maybe they do feel the pain. Maybe it goes somewhere deep, and maybe they are learning day by day that people don’t like them. That society isn’t for them.

I hate it.

Please can you teach your children to be more than polite and kind to their peers with disabilities? Please can you urge them to actually get to know them, to actually connect and include them? Even when they are messy, annoying, noisy and a bit weird. Even then?

OP - go over to the special needs boards though - AIBU won't end well (I'll be hiding the thread now)

Isn’t that rather the point? Folks in the SN board get it. OP doesn’t need to ask them to teach their children not to exclude.

Well no I can’t see how someone using a wheelchair or missing an arm or stammering would make another child feel uncomfortable
😂😂😂

Are you for real? DD’s wheelchair and walking frame definitely make kids feel uncomfortable. Unless you think their gawping open mouthed stare is them being awestruck and the reason they move away from her is...erm...to get a better look at her awesome wheels?

@TregunaMekoides gosh, you must be so proud. I can’t think of much that would
Make me feel prouder of my child.

Heaven forbid anyone should have to engage with someone who is ‘socially awkward’. Truly the worst thing that could ever happen to a child.

If she’s not including them because of their colour and you don’t see that as a major issue I despair and can only presume you have some racial prejudice yourself.

The reason is quite important though. If a child says they don't want to be friends with another child because they're a different race for example, would you accept that?

This is the crux for me.

My DS is very outgoing. Very active and physical and doesn't have a thought go through his head that doesn't involve football.

My DD is much quieter when in public. She doesn't like to be overwhelmed and doesn't want to follow a game with others rules.

If my DS came to me and said I don't want to ply with X because he hates loud noises, doesn't want to play football and just wants to sit down and play a board game I'd say OK.

If my DD didn't want to play with Y because she's to loud, to grabby and invades her personal space and doesn't like my DD not following the rules of their game I'd absolutely defend her right not to be in that situation.

Either X or Y could have SN. I could probably say to DS that he could try and play a board game but I know it wouldn't be successful right now. Maybe when he's older.

But I wouldn't encourage my DD at all. If just say that she can say no thank you and if she's continued to be bothered to tell someone.

For me her boundaries are more improving than anything.

The problem is many people just 'accept' that their child is friends with Lucy and Sophie and Grace but not with Leyla.
They don't actually do the extra step of chatting with their child about why they like the first 3 but not the 4th.

Maybe if they did they would find that their young child is being put off based on the SN and would encourage at least a second look or a better understanding.
So it isn't forcing friendships, it is about encouraging their child to be more open to difference before judging.

This thread made me cry, I could have written the OP about my beautiful DD and the way people react to her.

Wearywithteens

Thanks. I can put my hand on my heart and say that I have no hostility towards people with any form of disability (that would be weird).

Thebigball, I'll reflect on the fact that you are most probably white and can only see things from your perspective. You talk about inclusion? It is thinking like yours, me, me, me and how it feels from your perspective that undermines inclusion. If you can't see or appreciate why equating racism with disablism is unnecessary and minimising both the historical context and the thought process behind it then I suggest you stop throwing stones at Hercule.

My ds is 11 and at his last parents evening the thing that made me most proud of him wasn’t his SATS results (he ‘mastered’ everything- which means academically he is way in front of where he needs to be). The thing that made me most proud was that he has befriended a child in his class who has struggled with making friends and who the others see as ‘different’. No one else ever picks to be his partner or chooses to sit by him. It my son does. I would rather a kind hearted child than a clever one. And whilst ds knows how proud we are of his academic achievements, he also knows that I put compassion, empathy and being a good friend over being clever.

I’m sorry your kids are having a hard time op, it must be really tough to watch them going through this.

If she’s not including them because of their colour and you don’t see that as a major issue I despair and can only presume you have some racial prejudice yourself.

I don’t understand what I said that makes you think I wouldn’t see that as a major issue.

I get you. I have two with autism and adhd. Eldest has been called a weirdo and stalker by a group of kids who were minutes before happily playing with her 😕 Youngest misses out on a lot as parents tend to ignore us.

I think the fact is most kids get to school with no idea that kids with SN even exist. So they get there, and they are encountering something new, and different. The adults in their lives have a role in shaping their response to this. You can encourage your kids to see this as part of life’s rich tapestry, or as something to fear and shun.
One choice is clearly better than the other, however much people may want to excuse themselves for not making it.

This thread has made me think about two students I used to teach with ASD. They were the loveliest children you could hope to meet. And they liked to sit on their own. They didn’t really have friends as such and seemed a lot more comfortable in adult company, which I understand. I also understand why other children didn’t seek their friendship, as hard as it is to say that. And it saddens me deeply that they found it as hard as they did to form friendships.

Are you on the wind up? If you can’t see why it’s important for your child not to include a child because they have a different skin colour to them and how that child would inevitably be made to feel then there is no point in discussing this with you.

What if everyone in the class didn’t want to be friends with that child because of its race? What then? Is that ok with you also? Do they all have the right to not include her/him?

*Are you on the wind up? If you can’t see why it’s important for your child not to include a child because they have a different skin colour to them and how that child would inevitably be made to feel then there is no point in discussing this with you.

What if everyone in the class didn’t want to be friends with that child because of its race? What then? Is that ok with you also? Do they all have the right to not include her/him?*

Hold on. I said “friendship” and you are saying “include”.

Do you think disablism is less serious and damaging than racism, tooold? If so, why?

Thankyou for posting. It's something I probably haven't given as much thought to as I probably should, but will definitely do so from now. And YANBU. You sound lovely .

“They liked to sit on their own”
Do you think people with ASD don’t need or want company and friendship?

Hercule Poirot is sadly right, almost everyone does behave in the way she is describing.

I disagree. I think most people just don’t know about it, or don’t know what to do about it. Speaking to some parents of DDs class, they know she has a disability, they can see it. But they have absolutely no idea two kids have autism and one has ADHD. They probably have no idea their kids are excluding them. I only know because I know the parents, and because DD tells me everything that happens at school, (she loves to chat!) Knowing those parents, they wouldn’t take the view that their kids “right not be uncomfortable “ is more important than the feelings of any other child in the class.

Do you think disablism is less serious and damaging than racism, tooold? If so, why?

How many friends do you have that are mentally disabled to the point where you feel uncomfortable that they invade your personal space? I’m guessing none. So why do you expect kids to be better?

I actually agree with a lot of what @herculepoirot2 has said.
We don't have control. We could vehemently disagree with why our children haven't formed a friendship. But we can't make them be friends. We could invite the child around for a play. But we can't force them to enjoy it. We can't force them to want to be around them.

Do you think people with ASD don’t need or want company and friendship?

No.

Is it not the same thing?? Being included? Being invited to play? Joining in certain games, conversations? Being asked to someone’s house for dinner?