To not understand why CCJs wreck your credit?

[whynotmethen]

So I have a CCJ pending - not sure if that is the right term.

If I lose the case I will pay it right away - though I obviously hope I don't and believe I don't deserve to.

But if I do lose it will be held against me? How is that right?

Surely it means if you are poor you should never contest anything otherwise you are fucked if you lose??

It would be covered by disclosure in a court case though, so that's how she should frame her request. She can apply to court for specific disclosure to get it if they fail to provide it.

"A copy pic of the relevant site signage & a map of same showing the sign locations.
A copy of the agreement between the landowner/authorised agent & Britannia."
That would not be caught by a subject access request.

True, the SAR is just for your personal info. You can ask for the other info under a FOI request though and while they tend to refuse to comply you can then get the ICO involved. I’m involved in a case at the minute and the ICO have given the landowner 30 days to comply with providing a copy of the contract as requested.

It’s useful info to have because often either signs and/or contracts don’t have the correct wording to allow a parking firm to litigate. And if I got to court these are the questions I would be asking the parking firm. Prove to me that you can litigate by providing your contract and copies of signs. Obviously if you can get them before a court case it’s better as you have more time to study them. If I was the OP I’d be getting my own photos of the signs.

So I’d be looking To defend it on 2 points. Firstly can they prove she was parked? No. Secondly are the signs legally compliant and does the contract authorise them to litigate?

@VivaLeBeaver , FOI only applies to public authorities. Britannia isn't a public authority.

And sometimes just asking for all that stuff in a SAR gets it dropped. They realise someone is going to fight it all the way.

Ok, didn’t know that about the FOI. The fb group I’m involved in only does hospital car parks so FOIs have played a big part.

whynotmethen Just wondering if you noticed a journo offered to cover this story (on page 2 of the thread I think?).

You should expose them I reckon.

Was it a hospital car park? I had to drive the wrong way to get out after waiting an hour. Got DH to stand in the way so wasn’t dangerous but 50 mins was a piss take.

@whynotmethen you do realise the firm wouldn’t have pursued this unless they were more certain they would win than wouldn’t in their experience? In addition if you loose you will have to pay their legal costs which will be the court issue fee, litigator cost for preparing case eg application, letters, briefing and barrister costs.

I would probably pay it now then go through their complaints procedure to hopefully get reimbursed

Of course they’d have pursued it without taking account of their chances of winning. They don’t look at each individual case, the process is automatic. A lot of people would just pay. Fortunately OP is made of sterner stuff.

I'm the OP under my usual name.

Regarding the info Britannia hold about the case, I've already done a SAR (been following advice on Moneysupermarket forum) and received a load of pics of the car going in and out - same ones they sent with the PCN (but none of it parked, obviously) and have referred in my defence to the fact that they have no proof I parked. I also got a lot of pics of their pay & display signs, which was actually infuriating, because I never disputed the kind of carpark it was, so they seemed irrelevant actually, and if anything just proved I couldn't have paid without leaving the vehicle, or read any small print. They also sent printouts of their pay machines, to prove they were working I guess, but, again, that wasn't my issue and it proves nothing about the other people like me (who must exist) who either couldn't park at all or didn't get out within the grace time after parking and so exceeded their allotted time in there.

Does anyone know if I can request any more info now, and if so what would be useful to have, or is it too late? I kind of think that if they have sent everything they have on me then it just shows they lack proof I parked. My case is currently awaiting mediation, and my written defence has already been submitted.

I know the onus is on them to prove I parked, but I suppose the onus is on me to prove how congested the carpark was, and I can't do that. My only witnesses were kids (they were old enough to know we were stuck in traffic and remember the incident, but too young to testify I suppose). People on the forums have said Britannia are known for not having CCTV so there won't be any footage of the queue from them.

Can you ask them for their figures of cars entering and leaving at that time?

You won’t have to pay their legal costs. That’s one of their lies.

It won’t appear on your credit report if you pay it immediately and notify the court (mindyou the courts often screw up and then you have to chase them to get it taken off).

If you can prove that you immediately went into another car park and paid, I should imagine the court will judge in your favour. If they don't, it looks like you have a period to pay so there will be no CCJ against your name.
I would clarify this grace period by googling, then stop worrying.

Fingers crossed for you. Please let us know how you got on.

There are an awful lot of incredibly judgemental people here, yes some CCJs are to do with non payment of debt, others can be about ludicrous things including fines, stuff related to parking and in some cases it is possible to get them and have moved and not had correspondence (even with a redirect on) . I ended up with one due to a school charging for my son leaving the school without a full terms notice. We moved, the school only wrote after we had moved and the redirect had run out. I paid it as soon as I realised we had one (although to be honest I didn’t agree with it) so although it was satisfied it was on my history for 6 years for quite a big amount.

And my issue is with regards in particularly to the parking stuff is their are a lot of companies getting nicely rich off this knowing that people don’t want CCJs, in fact that’s what this country has become to be frank, making money off often extremely petty small violations, councils have been reduced to it due to non government funding too. No wonder people are stressed

The pics of the pay and display signs could be useful because sometimes the wording can be incorrect and mean that they have no legal right to take you to court.

The fb group “fight your private parking invoice” would advise if you posted a pic of the sign on there.

I'm really surprised how many people think OP should pay this unfair charge. The principle matters even more than the money, if nobody fights then these companies have no incentive to improve their practices to only charge their actual customers.

I might be having a really blonde moment here, but have they actually alleged that you parked? Or are they just saying you are contractually obliged to pay for parking as you were inside their car park for longer than the 10 minute grace period?

The evidence that they've sent suggests the latter, I think. Signs to show that you were aware of the need to pay after ten minutes, pay & display machines to show they were operational and you could have paid, photos of you entering and exiting to show that these were over ten minutes apart. If that's the case, you'd be arguing that you couldn't comply with the grace period because you were unable to leave on time; rather than contesting that you never parked.

I am no expert there though! It sounds very unfair. Good luck

What is happening next OP? Have they given you a date for mediation? Do you have to meet them or is it all by written communication?

@whynotmethen I feel your pain and there's a lot of bollocks and nastiness on this thread! Contrary to popular belief there are unscrupulous companies out there and people with CCJs that aren't necessarily their fault.

I received a CCJ and it massively affected my credit rating so if you can, definitely pay it within the month so that you can request it is removed from your credit file.

In my case, I had a significant overdraft in the days when banks would automatically increase your limit without you requesting it, but I had a good well paid job so it was no issue.

But then I was made redundant and could no longer afford to pay the £150 per month fees let alone pay off the £10k overdraft. Contacted my bank and asked if I could freeze the interest and charges and make an arrangement to repay it as a fixed affordable monthly amount, all fine.

18 months later my bank sold the debt to a debt collection agency who constantly hounded me to increase the monthly payments. I offered to double my payments and provided evidence of my incomings and outgoings and what I could afford, along with evidence that I was required to have no CCJs as part of my job and therefore taking me to court could affect my employment. But they didn't care. They wanted to quadruple the monthly payment and took me to court anyway.

I completed an income and expenditure form alongside my offer and was told to send it to the agency, which I did. They didn't submit it to the court with the paperwork and the court made judgement in their favour and awarded a monthly payment that was higher than my TOTAL INCOME because the court didn't have the necessary information. It was done through Northampton County Court (nowhere near where I live or where the company were based) which I later found out is a bulk processing court so debtors like to use it because it's a rubber stamping exercise usually in the debtors favour.

It cost me £300 to apply for a variation order to be heard at my local court, where I attended. Closed session with me, the judge and a legal representative from the agency. The judge was appalled with what they had done and openly berated their legal rep. The variation was found in favour and the award was changed to my original offer but the judge said that while what the debt collection agency had done was morally reprehensible, it was not illegal so as much as he would have liked to there was nothing he could do to overturn the CCJ.

My advice to you would be to pay the £300 to have the case heard at your local court and turn up in person, you'll find the judge fairer than at a bulk processing centre as they see you as a real person.

She won't have to pay to get it heard in her local Court. Cases are heard in the Defendant's home Court, so she just needs to complete the Directions Questionnaire which should be sent within a week or so of the Defence being filed (OP, chase the Court after 2 weeks if you don't have the DQ so you don't miss the filing date) and state the Court she wants the claim to be heard at. It will then transfer out of Northampton for the timetable to be set.

Hi OP. I’ve been in a similar situation and completely sympathise. In my case I was very fortunate to have had someone working at the barrier who I was able to explain the circumstances to and so was dealt with there and then. But if he’d not been there, it’s likely I would have got a penalty notice like you.

In your shoes, I’d go and fight my case. As a pp said, you could request a log of number of cars exiting in that time period. Also, that you can prove that you went to another car park and paid should support your case further.

Good luck.

What happened I the end OP?