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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Neighbour Dispute

149 replies

QualCheckBot · 14/08/2019 19:03

Not really a dispute, its all relatively civilised...

We are 3 households sharing a driveway. The driveway urgently needs repairs in order to keep it usable. The title deeds have it as being 50% responsible for upkeep for Household A and 25% each for households B (mine) and C.

However, A proposes that we pay a third each and DH and I are agreeable to that. C however lives alone and wants to pay only 1/5 of the total because there is only one of her and each other household has 2 people. She also says that as she doesn't have a car, she isn't contributing to the wear and tear. The driveway is the only way in and out of all the properties.

I am against this because I think it sets a dangerous precedent of her paying less than her share for future maintenance.

Furthermore, to avoid drip feed, C quite often has her parents staying with her so there are often 3 people there, and her parents have a car.

Neighbour A is wishy-washy and seems likely to let her away with it unless we put a stop to it. In fact, A's wife seemed to side with C because she doesn't like me for reasons unspecified but probably to do with the fact that I work and she doesn't, so I don't tend to fall for nonsense.

Is neighbour C being unreasonable?

OP posts:

Original poster

QualCheckBot · 15/08/2019 11:57

hereontoast 'C has also benefitted from us redoing our drive surface and not asking her for any contribution. I'm sure it would have been a massive fuss had we done so. And if she tries any more CFuckery, I will invoice her for her share.'

Actually, no. There is an obligation to upkeep the driveway in our title deeds and since C's house was built at the same time by the same builder, it is almost certainly in hers too. The obligation makes us 50% responsible for that part of the driveway's maintenance (it doesn't go to A's house at that point).

You are the CF here op! Why on earth should she pay for any work that you have commissioned?

It was a very quick £500 resurfacing of a damaged surface and since she has not been asked for any contribution whatsoever towards it though she benefits, I really cannot fathom how I am a CF in any shape or form!

C arguably makes more use of the access than any of us, since not only does she often have her parents staying (months at a time), she has everything delivered and gardeners regularly. But that's by the by.

OP posts:

Apolloanddaphne · 15/08/2019 12:03

I am surprised no one has asked for a diagram showing the layout of the houses and the driveway!

Chocolatedeficitdisorder · 15/08/2019 12:05

I pointed out that that was irrelevant and her property would
be worthless without a vehicular right of access.

There really is no value in pointing this out, or attempting to threaten her with losing her access if she doesn't pay up. As a solicitor further up the thread told you, you wouldn't get anywhere with trying to deny her access.

Her property has vehicular access in her deeds and you can't remove that. The money thing is dependant on what the deeds say, but it's a civil matter if she refuses to pay and a judge would have to decide on that.

There aren't any circumstance where you could block her vehicle access to her property.

heronontoast · 15/08/2019 12:13

If you commission the work then you pay - you can't invoice your neighbour in retrospect. If you wanted C to pay towards it then you should have agreed terms with her before starting the work.

Original poster

QualCheckBot · 15/08/2019 12:29

Chocolate As a solicitor further up the thread told you, you wouldn't get anywhere with trying to deny her access.

I'm not convinced that is correct. I am wary of legal advice over the internet, however well intentioned, but I have had some from a friend who says it is dependent on what the title deeds say. Apparently it is an easement, it is an equitable right, and apparently there is case law to support the extinction of the right if the title deeds make it contingent on paying a share of upkeep as specified.

At any rate, her property would be extremely devalued if there was a dispute with her neighbours over her non-payment of upkeep of the driveway.

However, no-one is blocking C's access or intending to.

I wouldn't feel too sorry for her. She isn't an elderly lady all alone in the world, she is only in her thirties and chose to move here, to a house with a shared driveway a couple of years ago. Arguably she uses the driveway more than any of us, as her parents stay for months at a time and if they and their car are not there, she gets everything delivered and has gardeners with vans, etc..

OP posts:

Spingtrolls · 15/08/2019 12:36

In a huge plot twist, the remaining 75% is shared between A&C hence the request for thirds, and now C's single person reduction. (If you want to offer a discount you could suggest she gets a 25% discount of the entire bill just like council tax)

But really just go by what your deeds say. Pay your 25% because that's all you have to pay. So what if one of the others has to pay more, it was there in the deeds from the time the property was purchased.

And if you really want to know, order both neighbours deeds.

NoSquirrels · 15/08/2019 12:46

You’re getting too bogged down in the arguments over who uses it more/benefits more/etc.

It’s not pay per use. It’s not a toll road!

It’s a shared driveway you all have to legally maintain. The deeds say so. If any house wishes to pay more than their share as a goodwill gesture, fine. But there should be no arguments involving who uses it most. Shut those down pronto.

Mummyoflittledragon · 15/08/2019 13:01

Seeing as A and C have perhaps concocted something, I’d go back to the original deeds. Pay your 25% and use the money you have saved to create access through your land so that you are getting no more favours from A.

Chocolatedeficitdisorder · 15/08/2019 13:45

At any rate, her property would be extremely devalued if there was a dispute with her neighbours

As would yours.

MinisterforCheekyFuckery · 15/08/2019 13:51

Six pages of people saying "just go by what it says in the deeds" and OP doesn't seem to want to hear it.

Original poster

QualCheckBot · 15/08/2019 13:52

I don't think it actually occurred to C and Mrs A that I would object to C paying only 20%. They seemed to think I would just go along with it and got annoyed when I didn't.

I agree its causing a lot of fuss and sticking to the title deeds is a lot simpler. I have asked A what his title deeds say. Obviously I can check this online if no answer is forthcoming. I suspect, if I get an answer though, it will be along the lines of "but you use the drive more for commuting etc".

Mrs. A was even against setting up a separate bank account to pay our shares for maintenance in and out of. She had another little dig at me over it, about how I was trying to "complicate things" and "I'm sure we don't need that". But its really essential to have the money there in the first place before work is carried out.

Many thanks for all your words of advice!

OP posts:

TixieLix · 15/08/2019 14:16

If A is an older property and B and C newer, then my guess is the land was once owned by A and part of it sold off to build properties B and C, hence why A has the larger share. As A has 50%, I would also guess that the little bit of 'no mans land' at the end also belongs to A. Getting a copy of A's deeds from the internet should make things clearer.

Disappointed there is no diagram. A diagram with paw prints and spaceships (cats?) would earn extra points

ElizaPancakes · 15/08/2019 14:31

Don’t actually understand why C is being branded the CF when it’s actually A who has right at the start said she wants to pay less and have the cost subbed by you and C? C has clearly just thought, well if they’re going to try it so am I.

I don’t know why you even entertained the suggestion in the first place.

Original poster

QualCheckBot · 15/08/2019 16:04

It was the way it was presented to me ElizaPancakes. C immediately started off our discussions with her plan to pay 20% because she was single. It was breathtakingly cheeky. She has previous for CFery as well and is a bit of a pain in the neck and also a bit of a complainer. I don't know if it was a part of a plan with A, I wouldn't be entirely surprised.

Mrs. A and C and will only respond to emails from my DH or from Mr.A. Which is awkward because I arranged 2 out of the 3 quotes, including the one that we are going with, which is substantially cheaper than the one Mr.A obtained. Neither Mrs.A nor C have bothered their backsides to get any quotes or meet any contractors, despite me suggesting that C in particular did so in order to reassure herself that she was getting best value.

I find their annoyance with me somewhat irrational. I think they are annoyed at me for not sympathising more with C's plan to pay less.

OP posts:

BarrenFieldofFucks · 15/08/2019 16:13

Being honest, I think your viewpoint is tainted by your opinion of Mrs A.

BrienneofTarthILoveYou · 15/08/2019 16:13

Stick to your guns Op (& what it says in the title deeds). The more you describe Mrs A and C, the more horrible they sound. They expect you to be a pushover and are pissed off that you're not. The bank account is sensible otherwise any time work needs done, you'll need to 'find' the money from somewhere rather than having it already saved and at your disposal. Good luck with it as the way they're behaving would make me want to move!

Knittedfairies · 15/08/2019 16:18

I also think that paying for maintenance of the drive as per the deeds is the only way to go, if only to simplify the costs in future. (If C were to sell to a family of 4 it's surely unlikely they would get the single rate st a later date)

Original poster

QualCheckBot · 15/08/2019 16:35

BarrenField Being honest, I think your viewpoint is tainted by your opinion of Mrs A.

I honestly had no viewpoint of MrsA before that meeting and thought she was a really nice woman. She was pretty horrible to me and made me feel uncomfortable and embarrassed. I am now very wary of her.

OP posts:

whattodowith · 15/08/2019 16:37

I was all set to say let C have her wish because she doesn’t use the driveway but you mentioned the parents staying a lot so yes, the deeds should be followed.

PasDeGeeGees · 15/08/2019 16:41

Only really popping back on here because I was amused by the 'Old Orange Bollocks' comment yesterday.

Look OP, why don't you officially say to them both that you will pay your % as per the deeds. You can then privately pay some more to A. That way they are happy, you stick by the terms of your deeds and C doesn't get to find out. A and C can then go to pistols at dawn over the rest of the bill.

MountPheasant · 15/08/2019 18:56

I think stick to what you’ve done already OP- either pay 1/3 or stick to the 25% as per the deeds, easy. No need for further discussion

Tistheseason17 · 15/08/2019 20:08

I think you should just tell Mrs A to arrange the quotes and the workmen and you'll send her the 25% when it is satisfactoily completed. Let he chase the money instead of you - way less complicated.

SavingSpaces2019 · 15/08/2019 22:19

As we have already verbally agreed to pay 1/3 this time, I will put something in writing to A and C that we are doing so out of goodwill as a one-off only
Don't do that!!!!!!!!
You're mad!

I think A&C want you to pay as much of C's share as possible without making it obvious that it's inching towards 50%....what with all the 'minor' upkeeps that you will keep letting C get away with because now know they can gang up on you and sway you.

Stick to your title deeds - if they don't want a neighbour dispute on record for future sales then they can cough up!

SavingSpaces2019 · 15/08/2019 22:21

what if there are problems with the work to the driveway later on and it needs paying to fix?

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