To ask what's 'normal'?

[Andysbestadventure]

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I'm trying to find out what's the 'norm' with toddler educational development. This is not a humble brag, I'm genuinely after advice on next steps or how to nurture, if needed, as I don't have anyone in real life I can ask to be honest.

My 2yrd old (26mths) so far is totally NT and developing very well socially and physically, but have been told he may be 'advanced' when it comes to learning.

He's currently happily counting up to 20, learned to count to ten probably a year ago now, can name all shapes, colours, even differentiating between shades of colours for a few like lilac instead of just purple. Has known his Alphabet for several months too.

His fine motor skills are excellent and he holds crayons well and tries to 'colour' properly. He tries to copy what we draw too. He reads ahead (by quoting the next page) in books before we've even turned the page.

He has always been ahead with speech and took to baby signing before that like a duck to water. He talks well and has short conversations already.

He seems to absorb everything. As silly as this sounds, I thought half of this was normal, half of it was just him maybe being a bit ahead. But apparently maybe not?

The HV said he was very advanced - more than she'd seen in years. We've been to two nurseries recently to view them and the staff have commented the same. So has our GP 😳 But no one seems to be able to offer advice or point us in the right direction to nurture it in the right way.

Do we even need to do much? Is he advanced or are they all just blowing hot air?

Nice to see the predictable scathing remarks.

I agree with the helpful posters to let him learn if he can and will at his own pace.

He sounds like he has a remarkable auditory processing and can remember what he's heard.
Watch when he's at school for signs he can communicate in writing to the same level.
Perhaps get him into swimming lessons or gym class to make sure he uses his energy positively as well because it can be a problem if he gets bored.

What I would say is be careful not to make him think he's superior. My nephew is pretty precocious. But my sister has spent his life blowing his trumpet up his arse. He can be scathing of other children and I'd rather have a polite well rounded child who's bottom of the class than an insufferable know it all who lets everyone know they are beneath them!

When my friend's boy was three, he could read over 300 words from flashcards, and could play gin rummy with adults without them having to make any concessions to him. He immediately recognised the difference between a 6 and a 9 on the cards. He definitely seemed very much ahead of the other children his age. By the time he was six and a half the other children in his class had caught up with him, and he was just another normal /bright child.

With the music lessons, my daughter had been attending since 18months. Starts out more play based and progresses. Not too early ☺️

I think your child sounds really bright but not gifted imo.Ds 5 can do maths above averagely well but I don't think for a second he'll be the next big thing in maths,its just something hes particularly good at.

No - you don’t need to do much at all. No different to any other parent - you just might be moving slightly faster through the stages than others.

So....

Cuddles and stories
Cuddles and board games (have you discovered Orchard Toys yet - I am a big fan!)
Cuddles and cuddles
Running about outside
Balance bike if he likes it
Playing with friends
Swimming
Dancing
Singing

It sounds like he has a good auditory memory. It also sounds like he has the kind of parents who spend time reading with him, teaching him shapes, and who had the time, resources and inclination to learn and teach him baby signs. This is so lovely but you have to remember that a lot of children his age wouldn't have had information spoon fed to them in this way, and this is likely skewing perception of his ability as well.

To take your baby signing example- I am involved with the deaf community. Pretty much all babies in deaf families take to baby sign easily and early- it's actually something most babies are capable of from 6 months. It seems really amazing when you see them but they aren't all brilliant, they were just taught something that most babies aren't. good on you for teaching him baby sign BTW, I wish more people would do it.

My other advice would be to let him play and discover on his own. If you preload him with the kind of information he will learn in school too early, then he will find the first years of school easy simply because he's heard it all and practiced it all before. He could be marked as advanced and gifted when really its a combo of him being fairly bright and having been 'preloaded' with the basics. The problem is this early advantage will wear off as class moves on. He'll be left with his natural ability but also an expectation that school work should come easily and not having to try. Depending on his temperament he might get frustrated and disengaged at this point.

Jigsaw puzzles with increasing number of pieces
Building blocks in smaller sizes (Duplo progressing to Lego)
Geomag or similar
Unlimited supply of books (libraries are great)
Let him follow his interests and encourage imaginative play.

Hate to disappoint but my son could do all this - still is absolutely amazing at maths, science and reading (hates writing but has very poor motor skills due to mild hand deformity) he’s 6 now and can tell you every element from the periodic table and draw them, discuss scientific concepts such as Bose Einstein condensates but is really struggling at school as doesn’t want to do what he doesn’t want to do. I hope your child is different but I wish sometimes he was less bright but fit in better and was more compliant. Have put less emphasis on second child’s academic development and he is so so much happier and well rounded. It has really made me reconsider my priorities.

This is all normal, just advanced. Unless he shows a particular talent you don’t need to do anything special. Just nurture him the way you would anyother child.

He does sound bright and I would encourage him, maybe looking at flasjvards, number bonds to ten , when he starts school they will look at develop his reasoning etc looking at things and may have a gifted and talented programme but he's a bit young yet for anything and some children do appear very advanced and then plateau. Also by doing too much now he could be very bored at school if he already knows everything before starting (my daughter had a bit of this problem in reception as she knew how to write her name, knew her numbers, colours etc so was bored to begin with)

Reciting numbers or counting with 1 to 1 correspondence?

Very different skills

The HV said he was very advanced - more than she'd seen in years. We've been to two nurseries recently to view them and the staff have commented the same. So has our GP

Op, I'm just wondering what kind of area you live in because these people who have commented will really only be seeing other local kids. The things you describe sound reasonably bright to me but not exceptional in any way.

It sounds as though, his memory skills are very good. What about his other skills? I would advise looking up some child development milestones and try and balance him out.

It's tempting to push ahead on his existing skills, but I think this is a mistake. Quickly it becomes the focus of everyone around the child and before you know it, they are incredibly behind in many other areas.

My first ds was very like this. The HV said she had never seen a 2 year old which such advanced vocabulary. He has averaged out a bit since starting school. He is still one of the smart ones in the class but he is not genius level or anything. We never made any big deal out of it when everyone around us was saying how smart he was. He has a naturally inquisitive nature so we just support that with endless trips to the library. Don’t listen to all the grumps on here.

Coffee 😁😁😁😁

I want to keep the momentum going, in the right way

You don't have to do anything. Just like with the momentum of a moving object, he will keep going all under his own steam just as he has been. As long as you provide him with a range of toys and experiences and people and let him get on with it, he will learn.

There is no special responsibility attached to having a very bright child. You just do for him the things he seems to want. If he wants to play in the sand, take him to the sandpit. If he loves you to read him stories about unicorns, read him stories about unicorns. If he wants to talk about maths, talk about maths. The principle is exactly the same as for every other child. Compared with other children, he may happen to be doing different things at different times. That doesn't matter. They are all individuals.

You may have more of an issue when your little boy reaches school age. With the best will in the world, school can't provide him with an individual education as you can do while he is a toddler - they don't have enough staff to do that - and he may be bored there. That can happen to any child, but is more likely with one who is far from average. You might look into home education as an option, either from the beginning or as a backup plan if he doesn't thrive at school.

Development matters is a good read, gives you an idea of where your child could be developmentally wise.
This is what we used in my previous job as a preschool practitioner/childminder with EYFS children

Hi OP, getting put right in your place here I see - you've committed the cardinal Mumsnet sin of thinking your child might be in any way special back in your box with you!

In all seriousness, he does sound very clever but (as with my little girl, who is 30 months and was similar to your lad at his age, now verbally at the top end of 36-50 months EYFS for verbal skills according to her nursery) I can all be explained by particularly strong auditory processing skills and retention. And those skills will eventually be caught up with by all the NT kids and even out, it's just an amazing party trick in a 2yo! I do enjoy all the people who go agog at her conversational skills though, not going to lie! 😁

I had these skills too - early speaker, fantastic memory from a young age (for certain things - could retain any song completely after hearing it, or recite a whole film word for word from about 3) - and while it helped me revise for exams and pass them well it didn't really do a huge amount for my deep comprehension etc.

And, more importantly, it didn't give me a "calling" that I could devote myself to and love and specialise in - ability is worthless if you don't have the passion to deploy it. And until I had a daughter and discovered that actually THAT was what I loved doing, I spent a lot of my life feeling disappointed and disappointing because I had done so little with all my "potential" that parents and teachers had been banging on about all my childhood and adolescence. In my professional life I am overqualified but undermotivated and underused. Ability is no substitute for drive.

So for me I will delight in my daughter's cleverness - and I will tell her she's clever, because she bloody is - but I'll make sure never to suggest either that clever makes me or anyone else love her more, or that clever is enough all by itself. I will encourage her to spend more time on the things she finds difficult (socialising with children her own age and physical coordination for example) rather than train her to "perform" in the things she does early and easily. I'll encourage her to find things she loves to do, rather than things she's "good at". And I will make sure she knows she is worthy of love and capable of happiness even if she never "achieves" anything by society's lights, because these are the fundamental things I have been missing all my life and which have severely impacted on me in every area of my life.

@BeanBag7 he can count items. We put a random number of pegs or dolls or cars infront of him and ask him how many, he counts them out. Also with the alphabet we randomly pick letters and he knows what each are, upper and lower case phonetically. He doesn't actually know the alphabet song as such, as we have never used it.

@firawla he's picked it up as we've gone along and he likes me to draw random letters, shapes and numbers on his chalkboard wall for him to point and call them out as a game, we've not sat down and drilled it or anything like that. He's very enthusiastic about them all and likes to 'play' with it all.

@RedElephants thank you, I will look in to that.

And to the wally that asked if I took him to the GP to see if he was gifted 😂 jesus fucking christ. Give over. He was with me for an appointment (for me!) and was reading letters and numbers off the wall posters and chattering away to him about them.

We're putting him in pre-prep soon enough and at a school with small classes and a good proportion of lessons are child led learning so hopefully that will help too.

He's ahead in gross and fine motor skills. He goes to rugby, football and swimming and several playgroups. He is very well rounded 😁

That was to @thecatinthetwat ^ oops

My son was similar in some ways (not the fine motor skills) but the counting, alphabet etc.

He was ‘perfectly normal, just seems really bright’ until he was diagnosed with HFA at 5.

Just let him be who he is, play with him and he’ll show you who he is and what he’s capable of.

My son taught himself to read using the phonics songs on YouTube before he started school - he’s like a sponge with information - craves knowledge.

But he’s also Spider-Man obsessed, wants to dance all day and play with cars.

Let him enjoy being two and don't worry. He will pick up things at his own pace. Keep doing what you are doing with him and encourage him to enjoy learning and playing.
My DS could count up to 20 in a rhyme but couldn't count objects. He did know all the dinosaurs by name (well lots of them) and shades of colour. He also had a vivid imagination and could tell you stories about dinosaurs and dragons.
He is Year 11 as of September and really good at English/History/literature but not so hot on maths. Nothing much changed

I've wondered this about my own DS - but there basically seems to be a very wide range of normal at 2 years old. DS is extremely verbal, big vocabulary, talks in complete sentences, can answer 'why' & 'how' questions with 'because' eg 'how do we know that cup is hot?', 'because there is steam coming out'. You can have a conversation with him now easily (he's 26 months old). Lots of people have remarked on it. He also recites stories & songs from memory, knows his alphabet, counts etc.

On the flip side though, he can't catch a ball yet! Or jump properly with two feet. He's bored by drawing and colouring. I think words are just his 'special skill' at the moment. I was the same as a kid - early reader, forever with my nose in a book. I encourage him to do what he enjoys and learn more, but also to explore things that come less easily to him such as drawing. Agree with pp that you can just go with the flow now and see how he develops.

My son, now 13, could read properly at 2.5. He could read books with a few sentences on each page, spell, do times tables which he taught himself and learned a lot about electrical and scientific processes. He has quite a high IQ now ( he scored very highly on an entrance exam for a private school) but nothing excessively weird and has to be shouted at to do his homework. He’s also definitely on the autistic spectrum somewhere and has dyspraxia. Overall I’d say things have been harder for him than my more ‘normal’ child. Be careful what you wish for.

Dd1 was very similar. She is a bright child despite a summer birthday and is ahead of her peers. We did lots of phonics stuff with her as a toddler and she was reading simple books before she started school at 4. She is lazy though - things come so easy to her she doesn't always have to try. At 8, she struggles with not being able to do something instantly. It frustrates her because she has never had to struggle. I would recommend rewarding your ds's efforts, not the outcome. Let him fail and praise him picking himself back up. Let him enjoy learning. Dd lacks resilience which is something we are working on. Try to build this with your ds, his academic ability will follow naturally.