WIBU to call this out?

[harriethoyle]

On a disgustingly early train to a work thing. Suited and booted as is everyone in my compartment. Everyone in my vicinity is a man.

The chap on the trolley called me love the first time he served me and darling the second time. He has called all of the men around me Sir, both times.

So, the second time, I said "are you aware that you have called me love and darling on the two occasions we've spoken but you are calling all of the men Sir?" At which point he stuttered a bit and apologised.

WIBU in calling out what I felt was total sexism - he didn't call any of the men love! Or am I just a grumpy moo because I've been up for hours and have a long and difficult day ahead and the poor man was just trying to be friendly?!

[ilovesooty]

I hate "call it out" which seems to have become incredibly fashionable on here.

Regarding this particular situation, I probably wouldn't even have noticed.

[Cryalot2]

Probably in the minority here, but it wouldn't have bothered me. I would just have been happy with him being friendly. He was not being deliberately offensive and possibly did without thinking .
I prefer to be called those names as opposed to abuse ( which I get regular and now expect) All becuse I use a walking aid and make an effort with my appearance .
It is presumed I am a benfit scrounge and really have no need for my aid or to use disabled facilities. Sorry if it off track, but I am just happy to be spoke civilly to .

[Coffeeandcherrypie]

@BuzzShitbagBobbly d’oh! You’re so right but I think (I hope!) in this case I said he because trolley man was a he.

To all the people saying he was just being friendly, I ask again, imagine if you went to meet your bank manager with your husband and he called your DH ‘sir’ and you ‘love’. Would you be happy with that?

[Ohyesiam]

As a pp said he didn’t mean to be offensive, but it’s off to assume familiarity/ intimacy with you , you are strangers and he should be more boundaried.

[BuzzShitbagBobbly]

ilovesooty "I hate "call it out" which seems to have become incredibly fashionable on here."

It's better than the really horrible "pull him up on it" which always comes across as a really superior know-it-all attitude.

[Ihatemyseleffordoingthis]

To all the people saying he was just being friendly, I ask again, imagine if you went to meet your bank manager with your husband and he called your DH ‘sir’ and you ‘love’. Would you be happy with that?

Big big difference in the power dynamic with the OP scenario tbh

Also, in the name of equality, there are somewhat bigger fish to fry.

[BuzzShitbagBobbly]

@Coffeeandcherrypie d’oh! You’re so right

Easy to do, I am doubtless guilty of it just as much.
It's endemic for us to assume this stuff -
Men are Doctors, women are Nurses; Men are Managers, women are Admin; etc

The sort of small change OP made is akin to Broken Windows theory and should be applauded, not mocked.

[81Byerley]

Oh for goodness sake, you lot who think being called love is so terrible, lighten up!

[Coffeeandcherrypie]

@BuzzShitbagBobbly totally agree

Big big difference in the power dynamic with the OP scenario tbh

So now it’s fine for a woman to be called ‘love’ whilst men are called Sir if the man is of a lower social status than the woman?

[Wtfdoipick]

Oh for goodness sake, you lot who think being called love is so terrible, lighten up!

No objection to being called love at all but I do have a serious objection to being treated differently to men when there is absolutely no need for it.

[IamtheDevilsAvocado]

I don't mind being called love/my lovely /ducky... Well not much...

What I do object to is me being addressed like this and surrounding men being addressed 'sir' ...for those up thread disagreeing..

Yes he probavly thought he was being friendly... Like the person who thought it was OK to drink and drive...

But it reveals a sexist worldview... Language indicates thought and thought structure...

Viz.. I'll call this large suited man, Sir as he looks important and he's a man...
This woman is not so important... Probably a clerk...(she's probably a doctor or Barristsr).. I'll just talk dowb to her and show my male superiority by infantilising her....

PS this stuff matters... If its not challenged it makes a difference

[BigbreastsBiggerbeard]

There's a barista in a local coffee place who calls every man "sir" and every woman "darling". The two simply don't equate. It irritates the hell out of me every time I hear him do this. There's a level of respect that goes along with 'sir' and a level of over familiarity that goes with 'darling'.

[BeerandBiscuits]

Someone said "good morning ma'am" to me yesterday, on dog walk. I was unreasonably annoyed. Surely I don't look that old??
I nearly channeled Dick Emery and insisted I was a Miss.

[BigbreastsBiggerbeard]

As someone upthread said - it's a power dynamic. Men are automatically accorded the higher status 'sir' and women automatically 'darling'. The barista mentioned in my post will call every woman from teenager to elderly female darling. Couldn't be that hard to use 'madam' instead, surely? Or at least call all the blokes 'darling'!

[IamtheDevilsAvocado]

Some academic stuff re language and thought

[IamtheDevilsAvocado]

If we want to get change (we do!).
We need to write to these companies' HR department to ensure its imcluded in their basic training

[ilovesooty]

What's drinking and driving got to do with this?

[BuckingFrolics]

Well done OP. I'm with you.

[BuzzShitbagBobbly]

What's drinking and driving got to do with this?

I thought it was to do with how socially acceptable some things are - and how effective social UNacceptability is in driving widespread change. i.e. replicate that for this endemic low level sexism as per OP.

Not that long ago this (pic) was an actual advert. Unthinkable now. That wasn't just law, it was society.

[BarrenFieldofFucks]

If it is so friendly and nice, why wasn't he friendly and nice to the men?

[Mumsymumphy]

Yes 'love' is an informal way of addressing someone.

The fact that he addressed the OP in an informal way and all the men in a formal way is the issue.

I think the problem with the formal Sir is that the female equivalent is Madam or Miss, so it is age-based (why??? it's not for men!)
I've been addressed as 'Miss', I'm 45, it sounds ridiculous! So the person has to make a quick inward guesstimate of age and respond appropriately- it's a minefield.
Was the employee an older gentleman or young? I think that can be a factor too.

[Lucifer666]

Haven't read the whole thread but ffs get over yourself it sounds like he was just being friendly and wasn't intentionally trying upset you. You've come across a bit high and mighty to be honest. As for everyone else get a grip if you find this offensive and sexist there is much worse behaviour directed at women over more then how to address them 🙄 thb I would prefer being called love than miss or madam because it makes me feel old

[Duchessofealing]

OP I think you are a star for calling it out. I would have noticed and seethed and not done anything then and there (may have written to company if I could have been bothered later). Nothing wrong with being called love but everything wrong with being called love when the men are called sir.

[diddl]

"Oh for goodness sake, you lot who think being called love is so terrible, lighten up!"

But I don't want to be called love by a stranger.

If some don't mind, that's fine.

If others do then they should be able to say so without being told to "lighten up" imo.

[BuzzShitbagBobbly]

Lucifer, please do tell us what we are permitted to get annoyed about in this sort of scenario then?

• Is calling the woman customer "oi bird!" ok?
  
• What about if he ignores the woman completely and asks the male passengers if they "know what the little lady wants" from the cart?
  
• What about pinching her bum as he passes?
  
• Can he comment on her tits to another passenger?
  
• Is a full on grope ok?
  
• What if he pushes up behind her and ejaculates on her?
  
  Pray do tell where the unacceptable sexist behaviour starts, seeing as you seem to be in charge of deciding when women should "get a grip".
  
  Come on, we're all ears to hear where our boundaries should be.