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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU to ask for tips on how to turn a man into a feminist

58 replies

wtfuschmuck · 11/08/2019 10:24

So. One of DH's idiot friends sent him this meme. Hilarious, innit.

Idiot friend has never succeeded with the ladies (wonder why...) and has no responsibilities in life (no job, no study, still lives with his parents as he approaches 40). He also claims to be a very accomplished Buddhist.

But I digress...

The fact my husband replied to the meme with a smiley face instead of a "WTF" or something along those lines has ignited a fire in my soul that threatens spontaneous combustion.

My husband treats this "friend" with kid gloves so he gets away with it, but humouring that sort of nonsense is not on.

DH comes from a very patriarchal background and works with blokey blokes who apparently make jokes at their wives/girlfriends' expense regular. He regales me with stories about them that would make my toes curl. Then again, I wonder if he is telling his own stories. He's come a long way in an attempt to join me in the 21st century, but has a long way to go and these things boil my blood.

How can I get it through to him that this isn't harmless fun? That treating women as lesser than/the enemy/a joke is unacceptable - not just to me, but on a far deeper, moral level?

Anyone helped their man see the light? How did you do it?

AIBU to ask for tips on how to turn a man into a feminist

OP posts:

messolini9 · 11/08/2019 10:29

How to turn a man into a feminist?

Make him give birth.

SignedUpJust4This · 11/08/2019 10:37

I could never be with a man like this but if you have to educate him show him this diagram.

Tell him that he may only be in the yellow/orange section but other men will take that as an OK to push it further.

Invite all your female friends round and have them start telling stories about every single time they have been groped or intimidated by a man.

Tell that catcalling isn't flattering. It's frightening. Girls often laugh it off because it's the safest way to neutralise a threat but it's degrading and it happens all the time.

Failing all this. Have daughters. Wait til they are teens. Then his attitude will change.

SignedUpJust4This · 11/08/2019 10:38

Diagram

steff13 · 11/08/2019 10:57

Perhaps I'm cynical, but I doubt you'll be successful in teaching him. Do you really want to be in the business of trying to change someone?

ErrolTheDragon · 11/08/2019 11:07

Idiot friend has never succeeded with the ladies (wonder why...) and has no responsibilities in life (no job, no study, still lives with his parents as he approaches 40)

Uh... and he's putting out a meme suggesting it's women who shirk equal responsibilities? That's often precisely what feminists are asking men to bear.

Maybe you should do an inventory of the responsibilities in your partnership?

Challenge him whenever he's complicit in sexism.

Some ideas which may be handy to deal with common male responses:
'Women have no sense of humour' .... 'nope. Women have the sense to know when something actually is humorous'.

'Are you a bit hormonal?' - 'maybe, but at least it's only once a month unlike testosterone.'

Stompythedinosaur · 11/08/2019 11:25

Jesus Christ, I cannot express how angry and disgusted I would be.

I don't think you can make someone be a feminist, though. It would be like trying to make someone have a decent moral character. You can express how very unhappy you are with the perspective, but if they don't care then you can only choose whether you can live with someone who thinks you are less than them.

Cyrusc · 11/08/2019 11:42

Not sure it can be done OP. But following intently as I'm in a somewhat similar position and will likely leave him over it as my rage is building to levels I didn't think possible!

ErrolTheDragon · 11/08/2019 11:44

I reckon there's a mix of nature and nurture.

If a man's sexism is largely due to the latter, then having a daughter can help. But if it's the former then that's better avoided (well, any kids tbh)

Reallybadidea · 11/08/2019 11:47

How do feminists shirk equal responsibilities? It doesn't even make sense. Ask your DH to explain that to you and go from there.

Shoxfordian · 11/08/2019 11:48

Seems like you married a sexist
How embarrassing

TheInebriati · 11/08/2019 11:54

How odd for a man to spend time making derogatory memes about women.

beefthief · 11/08/2019 12:03

How do feminists shirk equal responsibilities? It doesn't even make sense. Ask your DH to explain that to you and go from there.

This is a good suggestion. Ask him to explain the joke.

ethelfleda · 11/08/2019 12:07

Following with interest. Not for my DH, luckily he IS a feminist.
But my poor friend has a partner who, may not be as bad as the guy you’re talking about, but still needs to wake the fuck up.

The problem is though, he would vehemently disagree that he is misogynistic. Most of it is subconscious to him - which I imagine it is for lots of men. He has no problem letting my friend do all the cooking and cleaning while he ‘works’ from home every day (self employed) pissing about with whatever his latest hobby is. She comes in and tidies up after him etc and it makes my blood boil. Especially because, half the time she is either too afraid to say something to him for fear of being a ‘nag’ (wonderful term invented to stop women from voicing concerns about their relationship) or, if she does say something he just absolutely never takes her seriously- like he can’t validate her feelings.

He also is of the impression that women in the west shouldn’t be fighting for equality because we apparently already have it. Instead, we should be fighting for equality for women in other, less progressive countries (his words, not mine)

ethelfleda · 11/08/2019 12:09

I mean, a MAN trying to point out that WOMEN have achieved equal status in society is hilarious! I mean, how the fuck would they know when they don’t experience sexism on a daily basis?
It’d be like me kicking him in the balls and telling him afterwards that it doesn’t hurt.

BradPittAndABong · 11/08/2019 12:34

"Anyone helped their man see the light? How did you do it?"

If you have to ask questions like this, you're fucked. Didn't you know that he was a sexist, unpleasant misogynist who doesn't like, or have at respect for women, before you married him?

I seriously would not spend my life (and definitely would not have children!) with someone with such abhorrent views. Is this prince amongst men racist and homophobic, or just sexist? If he is indeed racist and homophobic, why on earth are you with him? If he's "just" sexist, why is this seen as acceptable where (for example) racism wouldn't be?

Men like this do not change. It's not up to you to "educate" him - if you have to ask people how you can do this, what kind of man is he?

BradPittAndABong · 11/08/2019 12:35

any respect for women, sorry.

Original poster

wtfuschmuck · 11/08/2019 12:36

@Shoxfordian Seems like you married a sexist How embarrassing

You’re embarrassed for me because I married a sexist?

OP posts:

Sparklesocks · 11/08/2019 12:38

I think it only works if the man in question is open to learning and engaging

NaviSprite · 11/08/2019 12:42

My DH had moments of inappropriate humour that I used to have to correct but not to the extent you have described in your OP. It has been a lot of work getting him to understand how subjects he found humourous were not to me or most women (period jokes were his worst).

He thankfully very much joined the 21st century when I had our twins, one DS and one DD and from the minute he knew we were having a daughter he went online and seriously educated himself because he would not and will not stand for her being indoctrinated by misogynistic ‘standards’.

But he was never sexist, just didn’t realise genuinely what it was like to be on the other side of those jokes.

FamilyOfAliens · 11/08/2019 12:46

There is a school of thought, which I agree with, that says men cannot be feminists because they are members of the oppressing class.

They can be allies, or they can quietly get on with not being a dick to women without having to make a claim - generally to women rather than men - that that makes them a feminist.

SolsticeBabyMaybe · 11/08/2019 12:52

Well, statistically women work more than men, and also do more additional work i.e housework and childcare, so it's not only dumb but factually incorrect.

I don't know how you'd change someone's view, though, my first response is despair/exhaustion.

But maybe worth reminding husband that men say this kind of thing around men only usually, so men are the ones who have to stand up to it.

NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace · 11/08/2019 12:53

Perhaps I'm cynical, but I doubt you'll be successful in teaching him. Do you really want to be in the business of trying to change someone?

I tend to agree. I have my own set of morals and values that I live — and would die — by. However, that doesn't mean my way is right and I really don't think that it's my business to go around changing people. Would you like him to change you?

OK, I wouldn't term it 'harmless fun' either; it does perpetuate inequality. But, in the grand scheme of life, I don't think it warrants a LTB.

AnnaMagnani · 11/08/2019 13:00

I'd start by asking him what equal responsibilities he thought you, personally were shirking.

He'll probably backtrack and say not you, other women, and then you can ask about those women - and if you don't let him off the hook his argument will have gone up in smoke as you point out women's unpaid labour in the home, caring for children, sick and elderly relatives, predominantly female jobs having lower pay than male jobs and so on and so forth.

At which point it isn't funny and he shouldn't have given it a smiley face and it isn't just banter really is it, darling?

And just continue to call it out because I find that once you have seen it, you can't unsee it.

TheInebriati · 11/08/2019 13:02

How do feminists shirk equal responsibilities? It doesn't even make sense. Ask your DH to explain that to you and go from there.

You'll get a rant about how women don't really want to be equal because they don't get drafted, or work as bin men or in sewers.

CompletelyAtSea · 11/08/2019 13:11

Get him to read Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez so he has a tiny inkling of gender data gap.

Send his friend this to read https://katiebarker.home.blog/2018/12/13/womens-rights-and-the-myth-of-responsibility/

I also don't believe men can be feminists, but they can be allies and aware and supportive of what we are striving for. Not rolling their eyes or grinning at their sons or saying "mummy's just having a quick rant" would be a good start....

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