AIBU to ask for tips on how to turn a man into a feminist

[wtfuschmuck]

So. One of DH's idiot friends sent him this meme. Hilarious, innit.

Idiot friend has never succeeded with the ladies (wonder why...) and has no responsibilities in life (no job, no study, still lives with his parents as he approaches 40). He also claims to be a very accomplished Buddhist.

But I digress...

The fact my husband replied to the meme with a smiley face instead of a "WTF" or something along those lines has ignited a fire in my soul that threatens spontaneous combustion.

My husband treats this "friend" with kid gloves so he gets away with it, but humouring that sort of nonsense is not on.

DH comes from a very patriarchal background and works with blokey blokes who apparently make jokes at their wives/girlfriends' expense regular. He regales me with stories about them that would make my toes curl. Then again, I wonder if he is telling his own stories. He's come a long way in an attempt to join me in the 21st century, but has a long way to go and these things boil my blood.

How can I get it through to him that this isn't harmless fun? That treating women as lesser than/the enemy/a joke is unacceptable - not just to me, but on a far deeper, moral level?

Anyone helped their man see the light? How did you do it?

"You’re embarrassed for me because I married a sexist?"

Well you've married someone who thinks you're a, lesser human being to evry man he knows.

He's also anti feminist, so believes you shouldn't have equal rights.

It's like a Jewish person marrying a nazi, or black person marrying a KKK member. If you still don't get it.

I'd ask him to explain what's funny. It's not as if it makes any sense even if you were a sexist twat.

If I still don’t get it? Not sure why people are trying to belittle me here when I’ve come on to ask for suggestions. Thanks a bunch.

Of course, why not take on even more emotional labour than we already do?! How did you end up married to him in the first place?

Ask him to explain it, as said.

Then ask him if he thinks you should be at home, doing women's work.

Because the ability to make choices and work in whatever field you choose, is what feminism, in part, is.

How do feminists shirk equal responsibilities? It doesn't even make sense. Ask your DH to explain that to you and go from there.

Search the many, many posts on here by women who call themselves feminists but then say they wouldn't go on a second date with a man if he didn't pay for the first date.

Search the many, many posts on here by women who call themselves feminists but then say they wouldn't go on a second date with a man if he didn't pay for the first date.

There are many posters on MN who are feminists, and there are probably many posters who expect a man to pay for a first date but I bet the intersection of those two groups (if there is one) is a tiny proportion.

(Not to mention the risibility or considering paying for a meal as a serious 'responsibility')

Men like this do not change. It's not up to you to "educate" him

I don't agree. If someone has been brought up (as most are) in a sexist society, they probably do need educating and some are capable of changing.

The fact that our society has over the last century or so gradually become less sexist, homophobic and racist shows that people can change when they are made aware of the unacceptability, irrationality or whatever of their previous attitudes.

Presumably he had these attitudes before you married him? And you thought he would change or he didn't really have sexist views or love would fix everything. Yeah embarassed for you. Why did you marry someone and think you could change their views?

Dear OP,

We can barely change ourselves so how an earth can change another person?

...and why would you sign up to a full time, lifelong job that will almost certainly will prove impossible?

What lessons are you teaching you sons or daughters, if you have any, about choosing to spend your life in such a futile battle?

And what is feminist about any of this??

That’s a pretty lame meme. I’m surprised your DH’s mate sent him that. In my experience most men would not really talk or joke about feminism - it’s just not something on their radar.

If you want a sensible response: I would ensure your relationship has equal rights and responsibilities.
Your partner will notice how different his life to his ‘mates’ and hopefully realise his is better.

My dream is that my husbands mates see how brilliant our equal life is and want to emulate it. Or at least their children do.

@slashlover

Search the many, many posts on here by women who call themselves feminists but then say they wouldn't go on a second date with a man if he didn't pay for the first date

My, your straw man has a very pretty hat :)

How do you stop a man from being a sexist? I don't think you can. You can live your life with dignity and compassion, call out injustice where you see it and refuse to let offensive attitudes pass without objection, you can support others in the struggle for liberation and generally be a feminist yourself and hope that your example inspires the man who loves you, but you can't make him change if he doesn't want to.

Alternatively, you can decide that patiently explaining why treating women as not fully human is emotional and intellectual labour you just aren't up for. I wouldnt go out with a man who didn't think women were worth as much as men any more than I'd go out with someone who expressed negative assumptions about my ethnic group. Why the fuck would I?

IMO/E you can open a fundamentally good, kind, fair and intellectually non-sexist man’s eyes to all the things he hasn’t been aware of until that point. But someone who laughs at rubbish jokes at feminism’s expense has already taken a stand against women and won’t listen to you.

You’re making a lot of presumptions, @Shoxfordian.

Tell me, does belittling me by making assumptions about my character and choices make you any better than the people who forward that meme to belittle feminists?

It certainly seems you get a thrill of superiority for doing so.

OP, you're getting an unnecessarily hard time. A man who is a product of his environment, sexist and ignorant, doesn't have to be a fundamentally bad person. And it is perfectly possible to gently educate without nagging or being a bitch about it. But call it out every time until he starts to understand. So say you don't understand the joke, can he explain it to you because from your understanding women (and feminists) take on the majority of caring roles, often unpaid, the mental load (insert examples from own relationship here) have worse pay and recognition and prospects etc etc and say that you genuinely dont understand the meme or why it would get a smiley face? And then repeat every time something comes up.

My husband didnt understand about how damaging 'banter' can be until I educated him. He's horrified at his younger self and has definitely changed for the better, losing some 'mates' in the process.

I'm not aiming to belittle you
Just don't like his attitude from your post and it doesn't seem like he suddenly developed it. I obviously don't know all about it though. Not intending to offend you

@Shoxfordian Seems like you married a sexist How embarrassing

This was your contribution to this thread. And it achieves precisely nothing but to make me feel shittier about a shitty situation while you get to feel smug. Most people manage to find ways to feel good about themselves without feeling the need to drag others down to do it.

Honestly, it’s a bit absurd to try to ‘educate’ your husband. He has every right to choose to gloss over a stupid joke rather than take down someone he must feel quite sorry for. No one is obliged to defend a political cause just because their wife agrees with it. Let’s put it this way. If your husband was a Labour supporter and had a go at you for not dissecting a meme about how labour policies are hypocritical or something how would you feel? Poor man probably just wanted to avoid an awkward situation.

Op, it’s really infuriating when women put up with men who are sexist or are sexist apologisers at the very least. It’s not really fair to blame you, but it is bloody infuriating none the less.

That said, I would try and engage him in some feminist comedy. I can recommend the guilty feminist podcast, which is awesome. But if he is sexist he might need to hear it from men , but anyway go on YouTube and see if you can find anyone - someone reasonably young would probably do the trick. He’ll need to be re-cultured I suspect.

@Adoptthisdogornot Thank you for your constructive words.

I agree, and I think we all (beside the perfect people out there) find ourselves horrified about things we ourselves once thought.

My husband has similarly cut loose many friends over the years for various reasons. The one I referred to used to be a close mate of his but they barely keep in touch now because he’s so unpleasant. I didn’t mention it in the OP because I don’t think it’s any kind of excuse, but the friend has a physical disability so everyone (besides me it seems) puts up with his atrocious behaviour.

I’ll be more on guard now and intend to call him out on anything that comes up again. I already do but this one ground my gears badly. I’ll also be bringing this apparent mismatch of values up in our next couples counselling session and see how he deals with it in front of a third party - she’s a woman.

More self-righteousness. And this time with a disclaimer that it’s not fair to blame me but blaming me nonetheless!

What in my OP sounded like I was putting up with a sexist or sexist apologiser? The whole point of my post was that I’m not prepared to put up with it and was looking for ideas. Is it really that unclear? Besides a few helpful posters I’ve copped a backlash as though I were the one creating the meme, sending it out and reacting with a smiley face.

Stop me if I infuriate you more with my ignorance but isn’t a huge part of feminism about helping other women create positive change? It sure as hell isn’t about dragging them down to fuel one’s own ego.

I ignore comments made to get a rise, and do my best to raise my kids to (boys and girl) understand why the topic is so important.