Family WhatsApp photo ban

[olympicsrock]

I probably am being unreasonable here but i’m annoyed and upset and need to chat about this.

Background: dh brother and sil are having a difficult time. They have dd 7 who has SEN. SIL started a business 3 years ago that was a bad idea, sunk more money than they had into it, had an affair.

DH and BIL were competitively close growing up. 7 years ago they were partners in a business, BIL lied , business failed we and many friends who invested lost money, BIL and SIL bought a 6 bed house and new car at this time.

DH and BIL fell out, DH picked himself up career wise and after a very difficult time ( PND etc) we are doing well. We have two DS aged 7 and 4. BIL has now not worked for 2 years. Turned down a job that DH found for him ( working for a friend. Good job but not good enough for BIL. Still living in big house.
BIL is now depressed due to financial difficulties, not working, likely to divorce and struggling to cope with fact that his daughter has SEN.

The problem. PIL are trying to help BIL and 6 months ago suggested that I didn’t post pictures of my DS on family WhatsApp group as it may be difficult for BIL as he feels the comparison. SIL does put pictures of their DD on the family chat. As do other members of the family. At this time I said that I would send over half the photos to grandparents individually. No problem and I did this to a degree anyway particularly if them doing anything that was vaguely an achievement/ like sports day, baking etc. I usually post once a week or less to the family group and maybe another few pics to grandparents individually. I didn’t want to not send pics to the other SIL and nieces and nephews etc.

Yesterday at family wedding lovely FIL asked me ( and BIL asked DH ) separately if we could not post pictures of our children any more as he feels the comparison and it contributes to his depression. FIL suggested that the family have a separate WhatsApp group for everyone apart from BIL. I know that PIL hugely enjoy getting the pics that I send ( they have told me many times) and other SIL does too. We all live a long way away. DH is trying to patch up the relationship with BIL and thinks I should just go along with the plan.
I just feel a bit irritated by this. I like the family WhatsApp community , don’t feel a group with everyone apart from BIL and SIL is right and can’t really be bothered finding everyone in my contacts list every time i’m trying to be nice and maintaining family relationships.

I don’t understand everyone that is saying you should have a second group. If your BIL gets upset by the photos HE can either leave the existing group or just not look at the photos. I don’t understand everyone tip toeing around him.
This is not your problem to fix. YANBU.

DH just asked me why I am quiet today. I explained how I feel - thanks Mumsnet. He thinks I am overthinking and doesn’t get why the WhatsApp group is important in the family as he doesn’t do social media.
As I suspected BIL has not sought any professional help and doesn’t intend to. Just burying his head in the sand as usual. I am very tempted now to just remove myself from the group.

Denial and grief is a very strong emotion and some people ( quite often fathers) take a long time ( sometimes never) to fully accept their child has SEN. Parents grieve each milestone not met as expected and it takes some parents a while to stop focusing on what their dc can't do yet and celebrate the small steps of progress and what they can do - as I said the emotions are strong and can crash like waves. Plus their dd is only young so they are still in the early stages of their acceptance journey.

Having said all that it's not right that you can't share photos on the family group of your dcs just because one is comparable in age but to keep the peace a separate group may be the best option.

I will add though that if you refer to your dc as a normal 4 year old which they may see as you inferring their daughter isn't, when they are still struggling with accepting the needs their child had, it would more than likely be very difficult for them.

I don’t generally refer to younger son as a normal 4 year old just couldn’t remember the correct terminology ? NY?? Just trying to explain that DS is doing similar things to DN now making a comparison in their eyes

I don't understand the resistance to creating a new group which takes all of 30 seconds.
I currently have: a group with all of DH's family, a group with just PIL's, a group with all children and partners, a group with all his family plus my parents specifically for photos, a group with just SIL and her husband, a group with my parents and PILs and numerous other iterations. I even made a family group without BIL's partner when she left him for six months.

New group. Leave BIL out. Everyone wins. Done.

I'd just leave the group. If you have to pretend your kids don't exist to stay in it, why bother.
As it's your in laws, let your dh send pics to his parents if he wants.

Just set up two family groups with everyone - one with photos one just for chat.

Sounds difficult.

We’re all different. One of my sons has special needs. We still share kid photos across the family WhatsApp, including his. Granted, my sons needs are reasonably mild. Perhaps your relatives aren’t.

The big issue here is the dad of the kid with special needs not being able to come to terms with it. That’s the problem, and that needs addressed by him. If you’re constantly at war with having a child with special needs, you’ll never be able to accept that child as they are.

@Mary1935
"I think the BIL is highly manipulating.
If he’s depressed go and see a doctor and get some anti depressant and or therapy.
Does he like to be the centre of attention"

Ah, yes, those people with their depression and suicide attempts looking for attention.

Especially men. If only thered be a national campaign on Men's mental health and how family members could help.

Then the likes of you and the OP could just ignore it.

@olympicsrock
"I don’t generally refer to younger son as a normal 4 year old just couldn’t remember the correct terminology ? NY??"

NT. You could have used usual, average.

I think you have two options here.

1. Agree with family to have two groups, chat and photos that everyone uses for these purposes ie all photos from all family in the photos one

1. Continue with one group and slowly withdraw from it.

You shouldn’t need to do 2, but if it were me I’d be really upset having to see others post and know that it’s only my DC that have been excluded.

I’m not sure I’d be able to get past that they all think it’s ok for your kids to be overlooked just so that BILs feelings are being spared when it sounds like he’s doing nothing to help himself. Your children will soon be old enough to know they are being treated differently.

Just say to yourself you are happy to have a separate group for everyone but your bil and move on. It’s not hard and you are then being seen to support him.

'normal' 4 year old

It’s really unfair to ask you this! I’d have to talk to bil and say it’s not reasonable and he needs to get help for his depression.
It’s really unfair to pin his depression on your son and pil need to stop enabling this.they need to stop getting involved and be neutral!
A separate group chat is a terrible idea, it’s going to cause more separation issues and he’s going to find out and itl cause even more problems long term.

FIL, however lovely, should not have pandered to BIL's request.

I'd leave the group and privately email photos to your PIL on a regular basis, taking social media out of the equation completely.

After your BIL told lies surrounding his business to secure your investment and you nearly lost your house over it I'm surprised you have any contact with him at all. Hopefully you and your DH have an agreement to never become financially involved with him or lend him money again. Think your DH ought to be more upset about this attempt to sideline his own son within the family.

I feel for your BIL's daughter with her parents lack of willingness to understand and support her SEN. However there's nothing you personally can do and some distance is probably best for your DS sake if he's becoming a negative focus for your BIL. Who to me sounds highly manipulative.

Looking through your post OP, BIL is a man with major problems. He now has depression as his life is falling to bits, to some extent due to problems of his own making - bad business decisions, overspending, denial of reality, - and to some extent not - child with SEN.

But his chosen coping method in every situation is to try to pretend the problem isn't there. He buys a 6 bed house with money that isn't his. He carries on believing his child hasn't got SEN to the point she is nearly neglected. He doesn't want treatment for depression. He'd rather photos of your child don't exist so he doesn't have to acknowledge his child is different.

So PIL are helping him I'd guess that this has been a problem throughout his life. His family, and his parents in particular 'help' him by enabling him, rather than getting him real help.

When his business was going under, the family enabled him to deny reality by giving him lots of money.

PILs help now is the same. Their help for his depression is to go along with the idea that you secretly send photos of your child to them, while not on the family Whatsapp - he carries on posting pics on there - and everyone pretends it's sweetness and light. It just doesn't bloody work.

As a PP said, if you set up a photos only group, within 2 weeks, everyone will be on there, and he'll be moaning he's excluded.

He needs serious help for his mental health, he isn't getting it and I strongly suspect PILs have a longterm role as his enablers.

I think your decision to drop out of social media with them altogether is a good one, and just let them face the consequences of their 'no photos' decision.

Two Whatsapp groups would be fine IF the 'rules'apply to everybody. Everyone posts pictures only in the 'photos' group, or no-one. The current suggestion as I understand it, is that everyone EXCEPT the OP will still be welcome to post photos in the current group, whereas OP's DCs pictures will have to go in the photos group.
If that is correct, then IMO, it means that the OP's family is actively being excluded from the main family group. If this happened to a child at school, for example, it would be called bullying. If the BIL, who has no actual diagnosis, no intention of seeking one and therefore, no intention of getting help, succeeds in this, what is he going to ask for next? As others have already said, how long is it until he decides he cannot cope with seeing, or hearing about his dn's at all-airbrushing them out of existence. What then? He asked his parents to reduce and then cut contact because it's too hard even just knowing that they are seeing them and he assumes they are comparing them to his child?
He has brought about the problems between himself and his brother due to his own lies. It sounds to me as though he needs serious help to accept his child's SEN - pretending his nephews don't exist is not the way to do it.

Make a second group and remove yourself from the first. If your dh wants all the chats then he can join social media, though it sounds like he isn't bothered.

I suspect you feel BIL is pandered too because the frustration is driven by his screwing over your family with the business. When someone shits on you like that, things that wouldn't normally register bevome frustrations.

@GloriousGoosebumps
I said the bil is manipulative. We know he is because of their history. IE the bil lied. These lies contributed to the failing of the business and / or his actions led to op, her dh and their friends losing money. It is fair to question his motives.

Honestly I think I would leave the group altogether and just send pics and messages to your pils.

Why is it up to YOU not to post any photo's? If HE doesn't want to see them: he should get out of the app group
He cant expect you to pretend you dont have a child just because he has a child with SEN. Yeah it mighy be tough. But he has to deal with it. Because this is his family not just some school app group. Especially considering that they can share photos of their kid.. Which is redicilous.

It's a no from me.
As in: no to him. Of course you dont have to bombard the group with photos but sharing a photo once a is loveley.

Post all the pictures you want to the existing WhatsApp group. If you are a person who enjoys causing pain, upset and division then you can enjoy the fruits of your labour. Otherwise you will bitterly regret your decision in a few months because the sense of having done what you see as the right thing will not make up for the negative reaction from the wider family.

You are being asked to exclude one person from seeing the photos, one person you don’t care much for. All other family members will still be able to enjoy them. It is clear there is more to this than meets the eye.

OP YANBU, BIL and FIL are. As bananasandwicheseveryday so brilliantly put it - BIL has brought about these problems by himself. If he doesn't want to see photos, surely he should opt out of the Whatsapp group? It's not fair on your children and you are absolutely right to fight/represent their corner XX

I think you need to be careful. It sounds like things are about to blow up with BIL. I’d stay out of the drama.

If I were you, I’d stay in the group but just don’t post anything or read the messages. Take a break from it.

Are you on FB? Post family pics there instead.

FIL suggested that the family have a separate WhatsApp group for everyone apart from BIL. I know that PIL hugely enjoy getting the pics that I send

So no-one apart from BiL wants you to not send them photos of your child, and FiL has offered a solution that will keep everyone happy, so why not just do this and move on with your life. Sorry I don't see the issue here. Your BiL's character and previous business failures don't seem relevant in this situation.