WIBU to remove my DCs from exH?

[Fralla]

I think I know I am not BU, but am feeling horrible and guilty still for what I am considering doing.

I have name changed as a lot of details will be outing.

Split from exH 4 years ago and we decided to split custody arrangements 50/50, so we have the boys (9yp and 13yo) every other week. I am a firm believer that both parents are equally responsible in the upbringing of children, and that even after a divorce, dads should have the same rights to their children as mums do. And at the same time, it's good for children to grow up with both parents.

The problem is, exH is truly shit at looking after them. Here's a few examples:

• He will never ever take them to any activities. Both DS's have football training twice weekly plus one match. ExH never takes them, he's not taken them ONCE over the past 4 years. It'll either be me picking them up and taking them even though it's not my week, or they'll have to miss it. Although DS13 is now able to take himself to sessions.

• ExH is on a lower wage so I agreed to him receiving the child benefit for both boys. However despite this, he never ever pays for anything essential. No uniform bits, no activities, no hair cuts.

• The boys told me they hadn't had much food the week before the summer holidays. DS13 did not get any breakfast or packed lunches (as exH thinks he should be able to sort himself out), and the dinners in the evenings were small. When I brought this up with exH he said he didn't have much money that month.

• It was DS9's birthday last week which he spent with me. However, DS9 was expecting a present from his dad when he got back to his house, but his dad hadn't bought him one! Not one single present for his sons birthday! Again, he claimed poverty. However this weekend he has gone on a city break in Europe with his girlfriend.

• DS9 had difficulties breathing one night a couple of months back so exH called for an ambulance. The paramedics wanted to take DS9 to hospital for treatment but exH refused to let them take him, he wanted DS9 treated at home by the paramedics. It got to the point where the paramedics threatened to call the police unless exH let them take DS9 to hospital. (I only found out about this last week from the boys, they are very good at protecting their dad.)

• One evening when DS9 was at his dads and DS13 was at mine, exH left DS9 alone for hours without giving DS9 any means of contacting anyone in an emergency. I received a message from a school mum saying my son was alone and crying to her son on the PS4. I went around to pick him up, but it was another 30 minutes at least until exH came back and realised what had happened. Despite me trying to call him numerous times!

There are a lot of other incidents as well, but my main worries are that he does not make them shower or brush their teeth, he never takes them anywhere, and even on the hottest summer days all they do is sit indoors on their computers ALL day.

Despite all of the above, I am feeling incredibly guilty for considering removing the boys from his care. Maybe he can still have them every other weekend. But his selfishness will do the boys so much harm in the long run.

Am I being unreasonable for taking sole custody of my own children? They will be sad as despite how shit their dad is, they love him and they love sitting there playing computer games 24/7 when they're there...

I am also wondering as to how I do this in practice? Do I just tell him that I am removing the children from him and that they will be living full time with me from now on? Have I got the right to do that?

He will mainly kick off because it means he will lose the child benefits he is currently receiving, and with that also tax credits and housing benefits. But that's not really my problem, is it? He will not worry too much about seeing the boys less.

I don’t want to as;
- I don’t want them to feel like they are choosing between parents
- I don’t want them to say anything to their dad about what I’m thinking of doing, until I’ve made my mind up

If you don't want to ask them then can you get a trusted adult to ask them "casually".
Because the first thing CAFCAS will do if they get involved is ask this.

Next does your younger son have Asthma? If so being in the house of a smoker is doing him no good. In fact them both being subject to passive smoking is pretty awful.

Contact is supposed to be for the child's benefit. In fact you seem to have set this arrangement up to try to force him to parent. And you can't force anyone to be an adult.
CB is supposed to go to the parent who has the majority of the care for the children - which if he is not buying Uniform etc. is not him.

If you let the present situation continue you are being negligent.

Totally agree with you OP. Your boys have the right to a life run by a parent who has their best interests at heart. Feeding, hygiene and taking to activities are the absolute basics.

I'd remove them immediately, say no to overnights at the moment and sort out day time access with him maybe? Give him a few weeks to kick off and moan though first as he sounds the type to do so

And if paramedics are threatening police and the school are involving SS then you HAVE to do this

Given everything put together, I'd be tempted to email him listing everything you have put above (just the bare bones of it) and say you cannot send the kids to him until a different plan has been sorted and you are seeking advice re that.

Then get the legal advice.

If there's no court order, I can't see that you'd have a problem just taking away access (I'm not in the UK though) as if he wants to change it he can take you to court.

I'd tell the kids that dad needs a week off for some reason until you can get advice, but you have to consider what you do very carefully re sending them back and try to think how it will come across in a court situation. Tbh, after the paramedic thing I wouldnt have allowed them back at all, because even though you are saying thats grounds to stop access (it is) he will argue that you continued to allow him to see them. Your words may say you condemn his actions but so far, your actions don't- so the sooner you move to fix this, the better.

If SS have been notified and another mum is messaging you to tell you your son is home alone, this is all you should need to stop his access. How long until something else alerts someone else to this situation? Is it fair that you should be unable to rely on their father to actually parent them when he has them? of course not. However, the second you become aware of any of this it becomes your responsibility to fix it one way or the other. And, like it or not, there is still an unspoken expectation that as their mother, this is your job.

The paramedics and the leaving home alone are big red flags which should mean an absolute stop until there are new guidelines and agreements made before agreeing any new access with him.

I wouldnt be so quick to dismiss the toothbrushing, inadequate diet etc- 13 or not that would go down like a shit sandwich in court where I live (my ex tried that shit and got very short shrift from the judge). Same as with the activity. He's supposed to be supporting- football is no good if he can only go half the time, its unfair and mean.

Being fair and believing that the other parent should have 50/50 custody and responsibility and input only works if the other person absolutely shares that ethos- he clearly doesnt. And, whilst its great you're trying to be the bigger person, the nicer person you're now shooting yourself in the foot by doing it- do not think in a court setting that it wont be used against you. Been there, done it, seen it happen in far too many cases. Being the nice guy who does all the accommodating doesnt win you any prizes - you tried, it doesnt work, now you have to be a rottweiler where the kids' safety is concerned.

Don't engage with him over the phone, stick to emails/texts and don't get drawn into arguing if you can help it (easier said than done) keep it business-like and factual. You'll need things in writing to either prove he agreed to something and didn't stick to it, or admitting to different things.

Don't engage the kids in this decision making process.

Write all this down in chronological order, make a list of everything and make an appointment with a family solicitor asap. SO sorry youre having to go through this.

He clearly just wants the cash. If you don't need it, tell him he can keep the money if his contact reduces to every weekend or every other weekend. That way your dc's won't get too damaged and can still keep in contact with their father, if they really want to...

That sounds terrible for them, poor boys.
Your older son obviously realises that this isn't right already.

I think you should change contact and care arrangements, absolutely. If you're not happy about him having them overnight, then maybe daytime contact one day of the weekend and one teatime in the week? Except that of course he doesn't feed them, so that might be pointless. It would be quite a drop for them to go from 50:50 to 1 day per week though, that's something that has to be taken into consideration from their point of view.

The not-feeding them thing is totally shit - it shouldn't be on the 13yo's shoulders to make sure they're fed!

So in essence, YANBU and you really should take them away from their Dad's care, at least as much as he has them at the moment. Knock it down to once or twice a week, no overnights, so he gets to see them but isn't responsible for their actual care for any length of time.

So sorry he's been so feckless.

I think you need to separate out the really serious stuff from stuff that could be seen as a parenting difference.

-The ambulance thing sounds awful. If everything you was as you've been told, that alone is probably enough to reconsider access arrangements.

-Leaving a 9 year old alone for so long that they become distressed, and the 9yo not being able to contact you. I would a) get your 9yo a cheap mobile and keep it topped up so he can always text you and b) try to agree limits on how long the 9yo can be left alone for. If it happens again, it's probably a reason to stop access too.

-The breakfasts and lunches thing- did he make food available to your 13yo and expect him to prepare something? Or was there no food available? If the latter then I think you have to stop access- your 13yo shouldn't be going hungry. If the first option, then again I think it's a discussion you need to be having.

-With the not buying anything + not enforcing showering/teeth cleaning etc, do the boys have access to basic hygiene stuff at his house, like towels, toothbrushes, toothpaste, shower gel and so on? If they don't then that's crossing the line into neglect and needs to be sorted.

All of these things combined do sound really serious, and I think you need to take all of the emotion out of it. Do you think your sons are actually safe and not being neglected in his care? If the answer is that they're not safe/being neglected, then you need to stop overnights at the very least.

I think the stuff about activities, whilst far less than ideal, is really a parenting difference and that probably needs to be taken out of the equation. You probably can't make your ex be the parent you'd like him to be, but you do need to make sure he is meeting your sons' needs and at the moment he's not doing that.

@Fralla you are not asking them to choose between parents.
Ask them are they happy as they are or would they like to change it. Say to them that it is their choice and they are not choosing between parents.
Many parents ask their child what they would like to do. For example my mother asked me did I want to spend four weeks in the summer with ny Dad! And I said yes! I never felt like I was choosing between parents. Why would I?

The very sensible thing is to ask the children what they would like to do.

I also want to add to this argument that my mother constantly called my father neglectful, when he took excellent care of us and she was the abusive one. Often the person accusing someone of something else needs to look at their own controlling behaviour. A father and mother are equally important

I also want to add to this argument that my mother constantly called my father neglectful, when he took excellent care of us and she was the abusive one. Often the person accusing someone of something else needs to look at their own controlling behaviour.

Wow.

What do the kids want to do?
Does he live with his girlfriend?
Like a few PPs have said I think I would initially change contact to EOW. Tell him they don't want to miss football practice or something. Perhaps 1 night a week after school for tea, could you pick them up about 7?. See how this goes for 6 months or so and then take it from there. Dont stop them seeing him, and do encourage them to visit.

Hmmm - not sure that a father who evidently neglects his child's health needs to the extent that paramedics threaten to call the police in order is an equally good parent.
Op - there's been some good advice on this thread - and you started it with your clear love for your children and understanding that they need access to their Dad. I hope that you feel clearer about how to pursue this now?

OP, it might be worth seeing if you can get a statement of what happened from the ambulance service whilst it's fresh in everyone's minds. It could be very useful evidence if your ex did go to court.

Op - there's been some good advice on this thread - and you started it with your clear love for your children and understanding that they need access to their Dad. I hope that you feel clearer about how to pursue this now?

Yes absolutely. I’m an extremely grateful for all the advice I’ve had on here and I’m feeling a lot better. The DC’s are currently with me and I will speak to their dad once he’s back from his holiday.

I’m thinking of reducing it to two evenings a week with him.

OP, it might be worth seeing if you can get a statement of what happened from the ambulance service whilst it's fresh in everyone's minds. It could be very useful evidence if your ex did go to court.

Any idea who I would need to contact for this? And this happened a couple of months ago, but the boys didn’t tell me about it until last week. Do you think they’ll still have information about what happened?

If it happened as you heard from your boys I would be very surprised if there had not been a report made to Social Services. And that is probably on file there.

The ambos may not have recorded it as their dad gave in and let the ambulance take him - unless they were convinced of further neglect, in which case I would think they would have to report him, aren't they mandatory reporters?

But I would imagine that it wouldn't be that hard to track who it was - if you have the date and the rough time the ambulance attended, the co-ordinators should be able to find out which team attended. I don't know how you contact them though, sorry.

This is exactly for why 50/50 shared care doesn't work in all cases. If you have one parent who clearly puts the children first and is a positive and a pro active parent then you have the other parent who's not a good influence. It's in the children's best interest for it not to be 50/50!! My ex husband is horrendous with the kids in every way. I've also had police and social services involved cos of his behaviour. Social services are only interested in 'significant harm', no harm but significant harm so if it doesn't amount to that their not interested!
They will look for one parent to be the 'protective factor' in cases like yours and mine. I would be looking at reducing contact to a minimum. Yes the risk is still there but its less. One or 2 night e.o.w. And a tea date one a week.
I would be keeping a diary and also making an appointment with my solicitor.

Dear dh
I've becoming more and more concerned about your parenting recently, we discussed this frequently.
I've spoken to the boys, and as a result they will stay at my house, We will need to find the best days/evenings for them to visit you, taking account of their activities on x days.

Tbh I wouldn't mention cb for a few months but they I'd take it back, it's for the children's benefit, even if you give it them back on the days they visit him so they can go out or get food.