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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

WIBU to remove my DCs from exH?

94 replies

Fralla · 09/08/2019 12:01

I think I know I am not BU, but am feeling horrible and guilty still for what I am considering doing.

I have name changed as a lot of details will be outing.

Split from exH 4 years ago and we decided to split custody arrangements 50/50, so we have the boys (9yp and 13yo) every other week. I am a firm believer that both parents are equally responsible in the upbringing of children, and that even after a divorce, dads should have the same rights to their children as mums do. And at the same time, it's good for children to grow up with both parents.

The problem is, exH is truly shit at looking after them. Here's a few examples:

  • He will never ever take them to any activities. Both DS's have football training twice weekly plus one match. ExH never takes them, he's not taken them ONCE over the past 4 years. It'll either be me picking them up and taking them even though it's not my week, or they'll have to miss it. Although DS13 is now able to take himself to sessions.
  • ExH is on a lower wage so I agreed to him receiving the child benefit for both boys. However despite this, he never ever pays for anything essential. No uniform bits, no activities, no hair cuts.
  • The boys told me they hadn't had much food the week before the summer holidays. DS13 did not get any breakfast or packed lunches (as exH thinks he should be able to sort himself out), and the dinners in the evenings were small. When I brought this up with exH he said he didn't have much money that month.
  • It was DS9's birthday last week which he spent with me. However, DS9 was expecting a present from his dad when he got back to his house, but his dad hadn't bought him one! Not one single present for his sons birthday! Again, he claimed poverty. However this weekend he has gone on a city break in Europe with his girlfriend.
  • DS9 had difficulties breathing one night a couple of months back so exH called for an ambulance. The paramedics wanted to take DS9 to hospital for treatment but exH refused to let them take him, he wanted DS9 treated at home by the paramedics. It got to the point where the paramedics threatened to call the police unless exH let them take DS9 to hospital. (I only found out about this last week from the boys, they are very good at protecting their dad.)
  • One evening when DS9 was at his dads and DS13 was at mine, exH left DS9 alone for hours without giving DS9 any means of contacting anyone in an emergency. I received a message from a school mum saying my son was alone and crying to her son on the PS4. I went around to pick him up, but it was another 30 minutes at least until exH came back and realised what had happened. Despite me trying to call him numerous times!

There are a lot of other incidents as well, but my main worries are that he does not make them shower or brush their teeth, he never takes them anywhere, and even on the hottest summer days all they do is sit indoors on their computers ALL day.

Despite all of the above, I am feeling incredibly guilty for considering removing the boys from his care. Maybe he can still have them every other weekend. But his selfishness will do the boys so much harm in the long run.

Am I being unreasonable for taking sole custody of my own children? They will be sad as despite how shit their dad is, they love him and they love sitting there playing computer games 24/7 when they're there...

I am also wondering as to how I do this in practice? Do I just tell him that I am removing the children from him and that they will be living full time with me from now on? Have I got the right to do that?

He will mainly kick off because it means he will lose the child benefits he is currently receiving, and with that also tax credits and housing benefits. But that's not really my problem, is it? He will not worry too much about seeing the boys less.

OP posts:
bibliomania · 09/08/2019 12:40

The thing is, once he has contact with them, if you agree to it, he can legitimately remain in receipt of the child benefit, which is the gateway to other benefits. At one point, I agreed for my exH to receive child benefit - I was entirely honest with the agency that she spent more time with me, and it didn't matter. You don't need a minimum of 50% contact time to be eligible.

One option, if it's viable financially, is for the boys to live mostly with you. If he's getting the same money with less effort/outlay, he might be quite happy with this. It's galling, but it could work out cheaper for you if it means you get to avoid a court battle with legal fees.

Teddybear45 · 09/08/2019 12:41

Court order, social services. The paramedic and food situation is enough for him to lose all unsupervised access.

bibliomania · 09/08/2019 12:41

Sorry, that should have said, for the boys to live mostly with you while he still receives child benefit. It's fine if you're willing to consent.

Original poster
Fralla · 09/08/2019 12:41

If he is as much like my ex as he sounds he won't take you to court as a won't be arsed. He will probably whine and mention it but in the end he will be happy to have less responsibility and the scope to moan to all and sundry about how you have taken the kids from him. That won't matter a fig though if they have a better life with you

This is something I needed to hear! One of my main worries is how he will put his spin on it, telling everyone what a horrible woman I am. But most people have already seen how shit he is so don't think anyone will have it. And it really doesn't matter what he tells people.

OP posts:
ColdTattyWaitingForSummer · 09/08/2019 12:42

I would possibly make an appointment with a solicitor, and get them to write a letter simply stating that the boys will be living full time with you from X date, with suggested contact arrangements of Y. It’s then up to him to contest it if he doesn’t like it. Your oldest dc if he wants to live with you, it’s highly likely his voice would be the final say. I’m not sure about the younger one, but presumably he’d want to be with his brother? And happy having regular contact with his df?

Original poster
Fralla · 09/08/2019 12:42

The thing is, once he has contact with them, if you agree to it, he can legitimately remain in receipt of the child benefit, which is the gateway to other benefits. At one point, I agreed for my exH to receive child benefit - I was entirely honest with the agency that she spent more time with me, and it didn't matter. You don't need a minimum of 50% contact time to be eligible.

One option, if it's viable financially, is for the boys to live mostly with you. If he's getting the same money with less effort/outlay, he might be quite happy with this. It's galling, but it could work out cheaper for you if it means you get to avoid a court battle with legal fees

If this is possible then it's the best solution! I'd happily let him keep the CB if it stops any arguments.

OP posts:
Original poster
Fralla · 09/08/2019 12:46

Separated parents social services expect one parent to step up against the other parent to protect the children. I am divorced and my ExH and his partner ( who has a DD) were not parenting well. I stepped up and prevented contact - it was horrid. The other parent of the partners DD did not and now she is in care. If you don't step up and protect the children you are seen as just as bad.

Yes, pretty much what they told me.

This is what I need to focus on, how I'm just as bad if I don't step up to protect them.

OP posts:
Original poster
Fralla · 09/08/2019 12:50

Just to add another thing....he also tells the DCs that his doctor has said i's good for him to smoke, as it reduces stress levels. I don't care if this is true or not but surely it's not something you tell children?

And he gambles in front of them, especially on fruit machines (on his laptop). He only tells them when he wins, and then he gives them treats. But never when he loses.

OP posts:
PeoniesarePink · 09/08/2019 12:50

I'd go to a solicitor and get their advice to know where you stand legally.

The kids are at least of an age where their wishes would be taken into account by a court, and I think you should be guided by them in the main on this. Have a good chat to them and see what their honest feelings are.

The leaving alone and not taking to hospital would be enough for me to put a stop to it. The rest could be seen as nitpicking, even though it would send me equally mad.

You poor thing, this must be so stressful Flowers

AmIRightOrAMeringue · 09/08/2019 12:52

Hi OP

Not been through this but he is shit. One thing though, I would try and separate it into things that are neglectful and things that are just shit and concentrate on the former if you have to document the reasons.

Letting children go hungry, and leaving them alone, and not wanting them to go to hospital when they have breathing difficulties is all neglectful / dangerous

Not taking them to activities, letting them eat pizza, not brushing their teeth or buying them stuff is all shit but not in themselves reasons to stop contact in the eyes of courts / SS I would imagine?

JustTurtlesAllTheWayDown · 09/08/2019 12:52

I think you definitely need a solicitor. And a big YANBU.

Like others have said, the brushing teeth thing and activities could be seen by a court as just differences and not that serious.

The leaving the 9yo alone for hours and the ambulance part are serious. I would be spitting mad. Just make sure you have your ducks in a row legally before trying to implement any changes.

bibliomania · 09/08/2019 12:53

Talk to the Child Benefit Agency about the child benefit. It can go to either parent who is "responsible" for the child child. I think this is a fairly loose description, and (once both parents consent), there isn't a minimum number of hours or financial outlay involved.

It might make a difference to social housing - if he has a council flat with a certain number of bedrooms due to their living with him, there could be implications there.

KT2019 · 09/08/2019 12:54

Coming from someone who's experienced something similar growing up, my best advice would be to involve the kids and speak to them about it but in a way that makes it clear it's not a rift between you and their dad and that they aren't choosing favourite parent, just that you have concerns and think it would be best to scale back time at Dad's until it's worked out.

You'll be surprised at how much kids pick up on, even your youngest. They may love sitting on a computer 24/7 but they'll also realise how horrible it is being left alone or without enough food etc.

My advice would be to scale back visiting to just days/evening's with their dad once or twice a week (if that's what your boys want). It'll take some of the financial pressure off Dad and might be the wakeup call he needs to get his finger out. If not, your boys will still see him but will have a more stable home life which will be better for them in many ways. Get them involved though and see what they think would work best?

It's admirable that you wanted to keep him involved so much, but you can't force him to be a good parent. The conversation will need to be carefully worded so it doesn't come across as you having a dig at their dad, who they'll feel loyalty to, or trying to turn them against him. Good luck!

vdbfamily · 09/08/2019 12:55

if football is a 5 minute walk then surely they can get themselves there and back. They should also be managing there own teeth, breakfast and packed lunches.

vdbfamily · 09/08/2019 12:55

their

GrassAndDaisies · 09/08/2019 12:55

Despite having similar concerns to you, I have been told by others that a selfish women for not wanting contact between my dc and their father.

I guess they'll realise sooner or later, that you're the real parent, and your ex is a barely one. Well, that's what I've been lead to believe will happen.

YANBU. In this VERY sexist society, men seem to get away with murder.

CheerfulMuddler · 09/08/2019 12:58

YWNBU.

However, I think I would issue an ultimatum first. Give him a month to sort his shit out and tell him that he's not currently fulfilling his responsibilities as a parent. I agree the paramedic situation would be a huge red flag for me too, however, I'd tell him he has to:

  • Feed his kids. DS1 is old enough to make his own packed lunches. But there should be food in the house for him to do so.
  • Not leave DS2 alone again for longer than about 20 minutes.
  • Take DS2 to his activities. (DS1 is old enough to make his own way there.) If he can't afford food, he can't afford his children. I think I'd cut down to EOW and maybe a week night rather than deny contact, as you say the kids love their dad. But you're right - leaving his kid alone and not feeding him are serious issues.
Original poster
Fralla · 09/08/2019 12:59

if football is a 5 minute walk then surely they can get themselves there and back. They should also be managing there own teeth, breakfast and packed lunches.

This started when DS9 was 5, it is way to young to be taking yourself to football training. And I still think that this is too young at 9. It finishes at 7pm and for large parts of the year it's dark at 7pm. Should a 9 year old (only just turned 9) be walking back through town in the dark at that age?

OP posts:
CheerfulMuddler · 09/08/2019 13:03

Or - yes - daytime access rather than overnights is a good idea. And maybe get DS2 a cheap mobile so he can contact you if something similar happens again?

averythinline · 09/08/2019 13:04

why are you botherd about what people when say when he had to be threatened by paramedics for your son to go to hospital...
toothbrushing does not come into it....

just tell him he cant keep them safe and well so they wont be coming...or maybe just one night etc if the DC want some contact...

he can take you to court and then justify the non hospital/lack of food/birthday present etc...... chances are he won't bother

CheerfulMuddler · 09/08/2019 13:05

Should a 9 year old (only just turned 9) be walking back through town in the dark at that age?

I'd be surprised if football let him. Most activities for that age group won't release the kids until someone turns up to collect him.

VeThings · 09/08/2019 13:13

If you can cope financially without CB and the other benefits, I’d just start having them stay at yours for more time and let him keep al the benefits. If he carries on getting the same money without the hassle of looking after his DC, he’s unlikely to fight for more time.

You could do it gradually - e.g. say DC have something on a Tues night, so why don’t you keep them for a bit longer, then keep on building up.

Or you could be more open and say the DC seem a bit unsettled, why doesn’t he have them for x and y weekends, or every Saturday night/Sunday daytime (so he still sees them every week), you’re happy to sort out food etc for them, you will do drop and pick up, etc. Make it easy for him, knowing it will make your life harder, but is better for DC overall.

Chloemol · 09/08/2019 13:14

I think you need to take some legal advice on how to do this, but I would be looking at stopping 50/50. You have mentioned things a number of times which in my opinion are basic parenting duties, he is not fulfilling those even, never mind the ambulance etc so the children done first, and you need full custody

Chocolatedeficitdisorder · 09/08/2019 13:16

I thought I was going to read this thread and disagree with you, but I don't.

I think your DCs young lives are too important for them to spend half with a person who isn't prioritising them and and their developmental needs.

Beesandcheese · 09/08/2019 13:18

You can't let the neglect happen. He needs someone to have some strong words with him. You need to see some evidence of him providing for and supporting his children in their lives. He sounds awful.