WIBU to remove my DCs from exH?

[Fralla]

I think I know I am not BU, but am feeling horrible and guilty still for what I am considering doing.

I have name changed as a lot of details will be outing.

Split from exH 4 years ago and we decided to split custody arrangements 50/50, so we have the boys (9yp and 13yo) every other week. I am a firm believer that both parents are equally responsible in the upbringing of children, and that even after a divorce, dads should have the same rights to their children as mums do. And at the same time, it's good for children to grow up with both parents.

The problem is, exH is truly shit at looking after them. Here's a few examples:

• He will never ever take them to any activities. Both DS's have football training twice weekly plus one match. ExH never takes them, he's not taken them ONCE over the past 4 years. It'll either be me picking them up and taking them even though it's not my week, or they'll have to miss it. Although DS13 is now able to take himself to sessions.

• ExH is on a lower wage so I agreed to him receiving the child benefit for both boys. However despite this, he never ever pays for anything essential. No uniform bits, no activities, no hair cuts.

• The boys told me they hadn't had much food the week before the summer holidays. DS13 did not get any breakfast or packed lunches (as exH thinks he should be able to sort himself out), and the dinners in the evenings were small. When I brought this up with exH he said he didn't have much money that month.

• It was DS9's birthday last week which he spent with me. However, DS9 was expecting a present from his dad when he got back to his house, but his dad hadn't bought him one! Not one single present for his sons birthday! Again, he claimed poverty. However this weekend he has gone on a city break in Europe with his girlfriend.

• DS9 had difficulties breathing one night a couple of months back so exH called for an ambulance. The paramedics wanted to take DS9 to hospital for treatment but exH refused to let them take him, he wanted DS9 treated at home by the paramedics. It got to the point where the paramedics threatened to call the police unless exH let them take DS9 to hospital. (I only found out about this last week from the boys, they are very good at protecting their dad.)

• One evening when DS9 was at his dads and DS13 was at mine, exH left DS9 alone for hours without giving DS9 any means of contacting anyone in an emergency. I received a message from a school mum saying my son was alone and crying to her son on the PS4. I went around to pick him up, but it was another 30 minutes at least until exH came back and realised what had happened. Despite me trying to call him numerous times!

There are a lot of other incidents as well, but my main worries are that he does not make them shower or brush their teeth, he never takes them anywhere, and even on the hottest summer days all they do is sit indoors on their computers ALL day.

Despite all of the above, I am feeling incredibly guilty for considering removing the boys from his care. Maybe he can still have them every other weekend. But his selfishness will do the boys so much harm in the long run.

Am I being unreasonable for taking sole custody of my own children? They will be sad as despite how shit their dad is, they love him and they love sitting there playing computer games 24/7 when they're there...

I am also wondering as to how I do this in practice? Do I just tell him that I am removing the children from him and that they will be living full time with me from now on? Have I got the right to do that?

He will mainly kick off because it means he will lose the child benefits he is currently receiving, and with that also tax credits and housing benefits. But that's not really my problem, is it? He will not worry too much about seeing the boys less.

A lot of what you've written is niggly - 9 and 13yo should not need nagging about personal hygiene and teeth cleaning.

It really isn't niggly. It's neglect.
And to hone in on 2 of the less harmful aspects is ... odd. Whether they need nagging or not, kids need to be made to brush their teeth & shower.

I'm having genuine difficulty understandng how any adult could consider it "niggly" to -

• refuse to let paramedics take their child to hospital
• be able to afford a european holiday for self & g/f - but leave his kids feeling hungry
• abandoning a 9 year old for hours until he is frightened & crying
• never take the children to any activity, or encourage them to get outdoors
• allow them to play on screens all day
• refuses to pack lunch or ensure breakfast is eaten
• clearly spends his child tax credits on himself, as there is not enough food in the house & none of it is spent on uniforms or anything for the kids.

How are you managing to perceive this as "niggly" & not outright neglect, @IAskTooManyQuestions?

He doesn't feed them.

That, for me, would be enough to tell him that there will be no more overnight stays.

The other stuff is awful too, but the breathing difficulties/paramedics situation means he absolutely is not capable of looking after them adequately.

Let him take you to court for access. We all know he won't. You're doing the right thing in wanting to keep the boys living full-time with you; sometimes it is not in the child's best interest to have contact with a parent, and I would say that this is one of those times.

I would make the change now before GCSEs loom for ds1. I do think he could fix his own lunch, my 9yr old does make something simple (cheese on toast), so I would be working on those skills when they are with you so that when they are with him they can make some sort of lunch. Exh should though be providing the ingredients or some cash for them to pop to the shop. I would go for one evening a week (not football nights) and EOW, Saturday to Sunday. I would also probably be tempted to put a few pounds in ds1's bag so he can get them some bread and cheese or something in an emergency. He needs to let you know though if he has to use it so you raise it with dh. I think that you can split the child benefit so you could claim for ds1 and he claim for ds2.

And he gambles in front of them, especially on fruit machines (on his laptop)

Oh, so THAT's where the child benefit is going.

@Fralla - you need them back under your care pronto - with a solicitor's letter stating your concerns & listing exactly why ex is not a suitable or even competent parent.
Ex can have them 1 night or every other weekend, but tell him you will be monitoring how they are looked after, fed etc.

AFTER that, get the child benefit changed over to you. It is YOURS, not your shiftless lazy ex's. All very well that you can manage without it but why should you? You can always save it in an account for when DC's are leaving home & could use some cash.

I agree with @messolini9
those aren't just niggles and collectively it's neglecful. OP next time the kids are with you just done send them back to their dad's.

YANBU
You need to take legal advice, before you speak to him.
Your older child being 13's wishes would surely be taken into account, if this did go to court.
Can you reverse the child benefit so that you get it and so that the kids get the full benefit?

Did you ask the children what they want to do?

That should be the first thing that you do.

I am feeling incredibly guilty for considering removing the boys from his care

What care?

Thank you for all the good advice I’m getting here, it’s really helpful.

• DS9 had difficulties breathing one night a couple of months back so exH called for an ambulance. The paramedics wanted to take DS9 to hospital for treatment but exH refused to let them take him, he wanted DS9 treated at home by the paramedics. It got to the point where the paramedics threatened to call the police unless exH let them take DS9 to hospital. (I only found out about this last week from the boys, they are very good at protecting their dad.) there will be a record of this, which will help your case to not allow him access to your kids.

Another one amazed at the “niggly” comment. Children, even teenagers, need reminding about teeth brushing and showering. They need feeding and they need more than to be sat around playing computers everyday because their dad can’t be bothered to do anything with them.

Gosh I feel sorry for your children if those are niggly points.

OP, he doesn’t sound like the kind of dad that would put up much of a fight, he may even be relieved.

Did you ask the children what they want to do?

That should be the first thing that you do.

I don’t want to as;

• I don’t want them to feel like they are choosing between parents
• I don’t want them to say anything to their dad about what I’m thinking of doing, until I’ve made my mind up

*I don’t want to as;

• I don’t want them to feel like they are choosing between parents
• I don’t want them to say anything to their dad about what I’m thinking of doing, until I’ve made my mind up*

Just to back you up here Fralla - I think this is very sensible.
You don't even need to announce any changes as a 'decision' - just cut back, saying "dad's a bit skint this week" or "you've got that party & dad won't take you there, so I will, but that mean staying with me tonight"

• you know the kind of thing I mean.

It doesn't have to be perceived as a biggie - just a gradual cutting down on time with dad - until you are ready to make it permanent.

It's neglect. And I don't think you should ask the kids what they want to do. It puts them in a terrible position because I'm sure they love their dad but if he's incapable of taking care of them then they shouldn't be with him.

IAskTooManyQuestions gave very sound advice. This man does things that put the children at serious risk of harm - refusing medical care, leaving a young child alone to the point he's frightened and crying, not giving enough food - and he's doing things that aren't good for the boys but that social services and family court wouldn't give a toss about, like not nagging them to brush their teeth. It's important that the OP concentrates on the former and not the latter.

Yes, as there is no court order, you can just take them.

Even with a Court Order you could take them if you believed you have grounds to do so (which I think you do, some of the things you describe are similar to what I have experienced).

I would see a Family Solicitor and then apply to court for a Child Arrangement Order. You will need to go to mediation (or get the waiver form signed).

No court order and the children want to stay with you so it’s a no brainier really. You should really have enforced this as soon as the school referred your DC to SS, how humiliating for you.

I don't mean ask the dcs in a dramatic "Choose him or me" sort of way. I mean more like "I'm thinking it might be better if you started sleeping mainly at this house. What do you reckon?"

What you don't want is an angry teenager deciding that they want to move in permanently with their father because he lets them game all day or whatever. If's the plan to change contact is going to lead to this kind of showdown, that's important information that can be taken into account in any plans you make.

What if whatever caused your son's health problem had happened when Dad had left him alone, without means of contacting him or you.

This situation could have turned out much much worse.

I think you know what you need to do.

You need to tread carefully here and seek legal advice and possibly even cafcass (sp?) involvement.

The courts will not consider not taking to football training or allowing them to play on xbox or eat pizza as neglect or valid reason to remove access. Also, you say he doesn’t feed them in one breath and yet you say he allows them to have pizza for dinner? A nine and thirteen year old should be able to sort their own packed lunch for school, so again the courts won’t take that into account.

Also, the fact that this has been going on since the youngest was five is potentially going to go against you as you’ve not addressed these issues in the past four years.

Refusing to allow paramedics to take the youngest to hospital however should be viewed as serious. And as much as it grates, leaving a nine year old home alone may not be viewed as serious by the courts, so you potentially only have one possible ground for removing access. If you bring the other issues into the equation it will make you look bitter and potentially cause the courts to lose sight of the one issue that is important/valid.

As to this:

I'd definitely involve your older child in this decision - you say he'd want to live with you full time anyhow. How about your younger son? no you absolutely should not do this. I do agree that the eldest child’s opinion should be taken into account, but ideally this should be done by an impartial third party, otherwise it could look like parental alienation, and you really don’t want to have anything which will go against you in this instance.

You really need to get advice from a family solicitor, as they know more about the legal ramifications here whereas people on the internet will give you an answer based on their own emotive response.

• he is not feeding them
• he has left them alone and frightened
• he ignores their hygiene
• he ignores their sport and social lives
• child benefit is not being spent on them.

Just keep them at home, OP.

I'm pretty sure you can't self-refer to CAFCASS, NoCause.

The courts will not consider not taking to football training......as neglect or valid reason to remove access.

No, they would not stop access for this, BUT keeping clubs going is very important for children, especially those whose home lives might be disruptive so it may be written in as a condition in the Child Arrangement Order.

It was written in ours. Even then Ex didn't take DS to his clubs and so when we were back in court to do an Arrangement to the Order this was taken into account. It all builds a picture.

Things that you might deem small or petty might be deemed otherwise by the Courts.

He sounds absolutely shit and monumentally selfish. Never taking dc to football?? That’s a pretty basic thing to do. Not buying new clothes or feeding? Basic. Never mind the 999 fiasco.

I’d have stopped 50/50 custody a long t8me ago and taken legal advice.

Your poor dc. They must feel he just doesn’t give the tiniest shit about them.

I think you are right. With his level of 'care' it would be more appropriate for him to have the boys one day a week and not overnight.