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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to ask you to STOP using these unhelpful phrases?

317 replies

StopCallingMeTeresa · 07/08/2019 18:28

i apologise if this turns into an essay, but...

"Supply equals demand"
or
(worse) "low milk supply is actually quite rare so probably not your problem"

I've just read yet another MN thread where someone said the 2nd one (basically suggesting that a poster with suspected low milk supply probably wasn't in the "tiny tiny" %age of women who don't produce enough milk). It fucks me right off to keep reading this nonsense on here and other breastfeeding support groups/forums because it makes women feel like their actions or perception of low milk supply are the cause... rather than a genuine medical issue which might never be fixed. If a man had erectile dysfunction caused by a non-mental health issue, would we tell him that the problem wasn't a real problem if only he'd try the right thing, mentally?

Personally, this is (obviously) an upsetting issue. I'm 2 months PP and have low milk supply; as in, I produce about 5ml per 1hr pumping session, and I can get about 30ml on an entire day's worth of hours and hours of being hooked up to a pump inbetween breastfeeds.

My baby was delivered and within 48hrs lost so much weight he was admitted into NICU for monitoring. He was shrieking with hunger when he wasn't latched on, whcih was hours and hours of every day - i got about 3hrs of sleep in the first three days of his life, after which i was pretty much told he was in such a risky position we HAD to start supplementing with formula. My baby was literally starving.

  • I'm on domperidone to increase milk supply (dr is talking about stopping it now as it has had no affect).
  • I've spent every day of his life on a double hospital grade pump.
  • Oatmeal breakfasts, flapjacks to inrease milk. I feel sick thinking about oats these days i'm so sick of them.
  • I've taken fistfuls and handfuls of supplements every day: goat's rue to develop milk ducts, fenugreek, brewer's yeast, you name it, for 2 solid months.
  • I've tackled slow let down by doing extreme skin to skin kangaroo style care the last few weeks; I listen to relaxing music whilst feeding and pumping, smelling my baby and looking at him/pictures of him.
His latch has been checked. No tongue tie.
  • I've done about 4 feeding "resets" where I sat in bed and did nothing but skin to skin and feed for 3 days straight while my boyfriend and mum ran around doing everything else.
  • i've had other stuff like bottle feed technique checked at my local LLL group, as well as the health visitor.
  • GP has checked my thyroid and prolactin levels twice now - all normal.
  • We've done a weighted feed at the local support group but i'm simply not producing anywhere near normal levels of breastmilk.

There's NOTHING i can do now to ever exclusively breastfeed as intended. i simply don't produce enough milk for some reason.

... and yet i keep reading on here especially that "low milk supply is rare" (no scientific source or attributation, of course!) and "supply=demand", just like all the other lies i was told at the antenatal group about breastfeeing.

can i ask you to consider the impact on women like me the next time you are writing something like that?

by washing over what is a genuinely distressing problem as if it weren't a real problem, it doesn't contribute towards good maternal mental health and suggests it can be fixed.

sometimes, it can't.

and now i'm trying to accept that it's ok. but then i read BF support threads on here with misleading / ambiguous phrases like that and i struggle.

OP posts:
Cherry4weans · 08/08/2019 18:54

@Are you free, Google and 1 experienced nicu nurse told me this and the 1 out of my 4 kids who breastfed quite well was only one I didn't have problems with re placenta and hemorrhaging (although unrelated we both contracted sepsis so he was supplemented also)

Sausagessausagesandchips · 08/08/2019 18:55

I agree with the first response. In a year, none of this will matter. All your peer group will have snotty, stroppy, occasionally horrible, occasionally lovely little monsters. Regardless of feeding method, how the baby slept, how they were carried etc, everyone will end up with a standard-issue toddler and not a super sparkly magical unicorn child. (Except that you'll secretly know that your one is the best and feel sorry for the other mums!)

ErrolTheDragon · 08/08/2019 18:57

No-one will ever believe me when I tell them, I get a head tilt and "well some people find it harder than others"

Oh, we who've in various ways been there believe you.

And sure, I don't doubt there are some mothers who don't give it enough time - either in hours a day or persistence wise but that's simply not what the OP and most of the rest who understand her did. Conflating one thing with the other is most unhelpful.

They say ignorance is bliss... those who are incredulous have just been luckier.

ethelfleda · 08/08/2019 19:03

I’m sorry but whatever your views on breastfeeding casually equating pro-breastfeeders with the Nazi regime and its plans to exterminate Jews, gay people and others they deemed undesirable is enormously offensive both to bf-ing advocates and to the millions murdered in the holocaust

This

Juliehooligan · 08/08/2019 19:12

Wish all those health professionals would realise that women are not text books and that we are all different, some can feed with no problems, whilst others, like my sister had trouble producing enough milk, she was bombarded by the health visitor giving her advice such as its best for baby, helps prevent asthma, etc. Her kids don’t have it and we’re bottle fed, whilst my daughter was breast fed and has it! Just as long as the baby is being fed, it really doesn’t matter how.

Middersweekly · 08/08/2019 19:20

OP it sounds like you have tried everything you can. You’re being very hard on yourself. You’re doing your best with a low supply and if you have to supplement then you have to supplement. Don’t ever feel bad about it!

user1472151176 · 08/08/2019 19:24

Breastfeeding - the worst topic in the world. Glad I'm past all the bs.
Personally I believe fed is best.

gill1960 · 08/08/2019 19:28

Yep a low milk supply can run in families.
I just put both my kids on bottles straight away. And told everyone to fuck off.
A happy baby and happy mum is the ultimate goal. Stay strong and enjoy these precious months with a bottle ... not breast .
Yeah babe the breast police are awful and you need to stop listening to them ... trust that your baby wants a happy relaxed mum and a bottle

user1472151176 · 08/08/2019 19:29

Best of luck op. Well done for trying and sticking with it but don't beat yourself up, if you need formula so be it. Both of mine had formula and turned out fine

Zoejj77 · 08/08/2019 19:31

You have tried above and beyond for your baby I commend you. Don’t worry about what is said in those BF groups (I’m in a couple) you know you’ve exhausted all avenues don’t let someone you don’t know get you down.

These support groups can be pretty militant - I get why they are at times but that’s a whole other story that isn’t relevant at all.

Well done for keeping at it but do what is best for you both

BlueMoon1103 · 08/08/2019 19:39

You are not at all unreasonable, my DS cluster fed for weeks, seriously. He’s a big boy and I clearly don’t make enough milk for him, for a smaller baby maybe, but not my DS! He still feeds every 2-3 hours during the day at nearly 5 months and that’s with formula and breastfeeding! I support breastfeeding but not the ridiculous pressure women are put under.

yesteaandawineplease · 08/08/2019 19:45

sounds like you've had a tough time of it op. very clearly you're in the small % of women who cannot produce enough milk. and we're so lucky to live in a country where we can easily and safely access and prepare formula. I understand why you would find these comments upsetting.
unfortunately though many women are told or believe that don't produce enough milk. it is rarely actually the case. women think this because bottle fed babies are thought of as a the norm. so when breastfed baby behaves differently there's often a chorus from others saying "the baby is hungry".... "give them a bottle"... "you'll be able to see what they're getting"... " formula will fill them up" and they'll the assumption is that the baby sleep better and be more settled.
even though the baby is simply behaving in the biologically normal way.

don't take it personally. no one is talking to you when say low supply is rare. it is rare but obviously rare doeent mean never happens. very sadly you can attest to that. congratulations on your baby Flowers

Tubs11 · 08/08/2019 19:47

For what it's worth I preferred bottle feds, I got to kiss the top of her head and snuggle up close with her. When I was bfing I had to cover her face with a muslin cloth otherwise she wouldn't latch on. It's all about your own personal bonding experience and not what others try to make you feel

OoohOnly90CaloriesIllhave10 · 08/08/2019 19:48

OP you're a breastfeeding, fucking rockstar!!!

I wouldn't have tried all those things, your stamina is commendable. I hope that isn't patronising because it really doesn't mean to be.

I have no experience in that field but hope to be training much more in that area (trainee HV soon to be if they accept me!) so hearing this is good for me.

I did know a woman who only produces breast milk from one side. She exclusively breastfed. First baby she tried everything to get it to make milk, second baby she never bothered and just stuck with the good side.

It happens! And more than we think, possibly. Given the few people who report any issues and just bottlefed.

Rainbow · 08/08/2019 20:12

YANBU. I successfully EBF 3 children. For whatever reason, and no medical professional can tell me why, I did not produce enough milk for my 4th. He was admitted to SCBU at 2 days old for another reason but they kept pushing me to BF. I tried and did top him up occasionally (which probably saved his life) but he weighed the same at 5 weeks as he did at birth. It wasn't until he was admitted at 8 weeks for a bowel obstruction that the dietician asked me to pump and told me I wasn't producing enough. I was still made to feel like I had failed though. It was my mood, in my mind and I could do it if I tried Shock
IMO whether breast or bottle, fed is best.

Blahblahblah111 · 08/08/2019 20:40

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ethelfleda · 08/08/2019 20:42

There are some very sad stories on this thread.
And also some double standards...

limitedscreentime · 08/08/2019 20:45

YANBU, but as one of the rare ones who actually has an issue I think your beef should be with the fact it is dismissed as it is too easily banded about, rather than the opposite.

And for what it’s worth, I never managed to express more than 2oz but exclusively breastfed two healthy babies. Oddly, expression with a haakaa was more successful than a hospital grade breast pump.

FermatsTheorem · 08/08/2019 20:49

Blahblah hooray for sane doctors. When I finally gave up (only 8 weeks - DS was below the one in a thousand line by that point, I can't believe I just couldn't see how ill he was looking, should have switched to formula much earlier), I went to my parents' GPs (husband and wife team). Doctor (from blunt Yorkshire farming background) said that it was just one of those things, I had a low milk yield, before adding "if you were a dairy cow they'd have got rid of you by now."

Admittedly I have a gallows sense of humour, and I can see some women would have been upset by a comment like that, but for me it was a real tonic - just the injection of black humour I needed to cheer me up. And a very welcome reminder that ultimately we are mammals like any other. I suspect there's much more research on low milk yield in cows than there is on human women - most of medicine seems to revolve round men. (No one did a proper anatomical study of the clitoris until the early 1990s, for instance.)

derxa · 08/08/2019 20:56

Flowers OP. Humans are mammals and not automatons. Forget statistics. The most important thing is that your baby is fed and that you feel better. I'm a sheep farmer. Not all ewes can feed their lambs for one reason or another including low supply. Some lambs find it difficult to latch on etc etc The most important thing is that first feed of colostrum and if the ewe has had a traumatic birth then we might give the lamb colostrum formula. If we just let nature take its course then we would have a lot more dead lambs
I tend to think that breast feeding is a mystery to some midwives and a lot of them have no idea how to help or support women from initial latching on onwards. Good luck

derxa · 08/08/2019 21:00

Fermats Gosh I didn't read your post till I posted. I think we're saying the same thing.
Again OP good luck

ethelfleda · 08/08/2019 21:01

I suspect there's much more research on low milk yield in cows than there is on human women

Good point. I think the issue is though that they can’t make money out of breastmilk and so wouldn’t fund research in to low supply in women. Whereas they make a fortune from the dairy industry!

Booyahkasha · 08/08/2019 21:03

I was the same, tried everything for 7 weeks, the second I tried topping up it was like I had a different baby, sunny and happy. I felt like a failure because of the breastfeeding obsessives. When you are an adult, no one can tell!!! Who are you to judge?

Ihatesundays · 08/08/2019 21:11

I was talking to my friend who is a parent of 6. She said she tried to BF all of them and it was different every time. Some fed easily, one she couldn’t feed at all, another needed mixed feeding. Her first (Who is now 6ft8) wanted so much milk she couldn’t keep up and she BF him and he would still guzzle many bottles. She managed to BF twins as well.
She said not only were the children all different SHE was different each time and that must have an effect.

I think BF is sold on being achievable by effort alone, if you put the effort in, it you wait for your supply to come in, if you eat the right things - then you will be successful. It’s not as easy as that though.

Blahblahblah111 · 08/08/2019 21:26

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