to ask you to STOP using these unhelpful phrases?

[StopCallingMeTeresa]

i apologise if this turns into an essay, but...

"Supply equals demand"
or
(worse) "low milk supply is actually quite rare so probably not your problem"

I've just read yet another MN thread where someone said the 2nd one (basically suggesting that a poster with suspected low milk supply probably wasn't in the "tiny tiny" %age of women who don't produce enough milk). It fucks me right off to keep reading this nonsense on here and other breastfeeding support groups/forums because it makes women feel like their actions or perception of low milk supply are the cause... rather than a genuine medical issue which might never be fixed. If a man had erectile dysfunction caused by a non-mental health issue, would we tell him that the problem wasn't a real problem if only he'd try the right thing, mentally?

Personally, this is (obviously) an upsetting issue. I'm 2 months PP and have low milk supply; as in, I produce about 5ml per 1hr pumping session, and I can get about 30ml on an entire day's worth of hours and hours of being hooked up to a pump inbetween breastfeeds.

My baby was delivered and within 48hrs lost so much weight he was admitted into NICU for monitoring. He was shrieking with hunger when he wasn't latched on, whcih was hours and hours of every day - i got about 3hrs of sleep in the first three days of his life, after which i was pretty much told he was in such a risky position we HAD to start supplementing with formula. My baby was literally starving.

• I'm on domperidone to increase milk supply (dr is talking about stopping it now as it has had no affect).
• I've spent every day of his life on a double hospital grade pump.
• Oatmeal breakfasts, flapjacks to inrease milk. I feel sick thinking about oats these days i'm so sick of them.
• I've taken fistfuls and handfuls of supplements every day: goat's rue to develop milk ducts, fenugreek, brewer's yeast, you name it, for 2 solid months.
• I've tackled slow let down by doing extreme skin to skin kangaroo style care the last few weeks; I listen to relaxing music whilst feeding and pumping, smelling my baby and looking at him/pictures of him.

His latch has been checked. No tongue tie.

• I've done about 4 feeding "resets" where I sat in bed and did nothing but skin to skin and feed for 3 days straight while my boyfriend and mum ran around doing everything else.
• i've had other stuff like bottle feed technique checked at my local LLL group, as well as the health visitor.
• GP has checked my thyroid and prolactin levels twice now - all normal.
• We've done a weighted feed at the local support group but i'm simply not producing anywhere near normal levels of breastmilk.

There's NOTHING i can do now to ever exclusively breastfeed as intended. i simply don't produce enough milk for some reason.

... and yet i keep reading on here especially that "low milk supply is rare" (no scientific source or attributation, of course!) and "supply=demand", just like all the other lies i was told at the antenatal group about breastfeeing.

can i ask you to consider the impact on women like me the next time you are writing something like that?

by washing over what is a genuinely distressing problem as if it weren't a real problem, it doesn't contribute towards good maternal mental health and suggests it can be fixed.

sometimes, it can't.

and now i'm trying to accept that it's ok. but then i read BF support threads on here with misleading / ambiguous phrases like that and i struggle.

There is nothing more humbling than seeing a new mum try everything and anything to make it work, and fail through absolutely no fault of her own.

I agree with you re the smugness and the superiority of some breast feeders - despite being a long-term feeder myself - I hated it.

Feeding our babies is an act of love and nurture, however we do it. Every single woman has the personal choice and their way should be supported 100%.

Every mum's milk supply is different. Of course some mum's don't produce enough. Their human, not robots. BF isn't the panacea it's made out to be.

I'm the opposite and committed the cardinal sin of pumping surplus by day 4. Had loads of the stuff in the freezer and a baby that gained loads of weight. She didn't drop weight at all despite being bf. up yours health visitor.

There are so many misconceptions in this post from people who believed they also didn't produce milk that it is blatantly obvious why the 1% fact gets said. Pumping will not guarantee milk production. Quite the opposite.

Why can't we just believe that women DO have problems with supply and let them get on with feeding their babies in whichever way works for them?

Because for the majority of women I have supported "whichever way works for them" is almost always breast - because that is what they want, and I help them achieve it. If they come for support I can't just "believe they DO have problems with supply", I wouldn't be doing my job (I'm not actually paid but you know what I mean), I have to do more than just believe it. It DOES happen, so women DO have supply issues. 90% of the time supply issues are a symptom, but yes, some people cannot produce sufficient milk, and we do need to accept this does happen, but what lots of people think of as low supply isn't and to assume they are right would be doing them a disservice and failing a large number of women who want to, and can breastfeed. .

Bless you. . I really think you will enjoy your baby a lot more if you give yourself a big hug and perhaps consider taking a breather from trying. You must be exhausted and exhaustion possibly won’t be helping.

I hope you don’t mind my asking. I was just wondering if have ever stopped for one day to see how much milk your breasts are actually producing. I am not an expert but would imagine if you are producing any sort of amount to be able to feed, your breasts would become at least a bit full if you have anything like the amount needed to make one feed. I’m just concerned you are at risk of pnd continuing as you are.

Idk what it is not to be able to feed. I wasn’t able to conceive naturally though and needed ivf 3 times before successful so I do understand he body doesn’t always do what we want.

Part of the problem seems to be many people's wobbly relationship with statistics, which makes them confuse "1% of women" with "something so incredibly rare it is virtually unheard of and the person who tells you she has it is almost bound to be lying". 1%- that is, 1 out of every 100 child-bearing women you have ever met, and I for one have met many, many hundred women.

My dd's medical condition is far less common than that: 1:5000 (as compared to 1:100). But there are at least 2 other girls at her small college with the condition: it would be a bit weird for her to suggest it can't possibly be true of the other 2.

Frig me. The hysteria over breast feeding.
We know it’s best.
Some of us just can’t or don’t like it.
Be grateful there’s a good alternative, use it and get on with enjoying your child, without angst and self flagellation.

I agree with those who find such comments unhelpful and likely to be inaccurate.

From what I can see, there’s a massive misunderstanding of statistics here. Even if the 1% figure is true (which I doubt it is), that still is not rare, it’s quite a frequent occurance. Try getting an insurance quote for something that happens 1 in a hundred times and you’ll see just how frequent it is.

Secondly, the group of women seeking specific breastfeeding advice online is not a sample of the general population. It is by definition a group of women who are experiencing problems. So the incidence in this group of “genuine low supply” (what a horrible phrase - are the others faking it then?), the rate of genuine low supply in the group having problems will be much higher than the entire population of breastfeeding mothers.

So how much would be enough for people to agree it’s a real problem and a real issue? That it’s something to be considered when a mother is reporting a baby losing weight or struggling to gain weight or never satisfied? Why does it matter? It’s a known phenomenon, why do we pretend it’s utterly impossible for any individual poster asking the question to have this condition?

The question of correlation with pumping is also nonsense. While I accept that there are some women who have a plentiful supply when feeding directly but can only pump drops, there’s never a case of a woman with low supply who can pump gallons. So there is indeed a correlation, and inability to pump should be considered a sign - not a diagnosis but a relevant piece of the jigsaw.

The advice of intensive exclusive breastfeeding is also potentially dangerous for mothers and babies. Babies have few reserves and grow faster than at any other time in their life. Any restriction of calories can be very dangerous to them - starvation, dehydration, jaundice are all risks. And the sitting under the baby for endless hours to establish a supply in early weeks puts women at risk of developing blood clots, which can easily be fatal. The advice to feed endlessly can be outright dangerous.

Breasts can and do fail. So do our eyes and kidneys and hips and our reporiductive systems. Why on earth would breasts be different?

The rhetoric around breastfeeding has become cult-like, where no dissent is tolerated. It’s worrying and harmful.

OP, please talk to your GP about your feelings and please feel free to switch to formula if that’s what you think best. Best wishes.

Where is the blooming data anyway - actual statistical evidence it is rare? 1%, 2%?

What country is that data from?
How many individuals does it include?
Over what period what the data collected?
When was it collected - 5 years ago, 10 years ago, 25 years ago?

So much statistical evidence is bollocks as it is taken out of context, if they quote it ask for the study that should shut them up

Ok @Hmmmbop that's ok for people who really want to BF...and if they've called you in as a BF consultant/advisor/whatever you're called then we have to assume they want it to work.

I was driven to the brink of suicide with PND when I had DS1, he was hospitalised due to severe jaundice and losing too much weight, but the pressure to BF was immense. Eventually I was put on very strong medication and told by my GP I had to stop BF. And STILL I get told I couldn't possibly be one of the 1% with low supply and if I'd really wanted to BF I could have...if I'd only tried hard enough, that I should have refused the meds that undoubtedly saved my life.

And actually I don't think 1% is 'very rare'...consider how many women use this forum, it must be thousands. Yet hardly anyone is believed to be in this mythical 1%.

StopCallingMeTheresa, I could easily weep reading your op.

It takes me right back to when I was breastfeeding. I seemed to have loads of milk and my baby guzzled away but he put on no weight. After a while I was advised to give him formula in place of some feeds - and he thrived! After a couple of weeks I stopped breastfeeding altogether, my son's colic had gone and we were both very happy!

You are not being at all unreasonable. Not one bit.

??

Of course some women will have a poor supply, and it will have contributed to to the higher rates of infant mortality of years gone by.
Have we all forgotten about that?
Instead of torturing yourself and your child, give it a bottle.
There will be millions of women who would have benefitted from having that choice, and not have a sickly then dead baby.

@MyFlabberIsAghast you might be surprised at the number who don't want it to work but due to pressure from DM, DP, DMIL, friends, society etc feel they can't say they don't want to breastfeed. And that is very wrong. It should be an informed choice, and helping women voice that choice is also an important part of the role.

The whole attitude to infant feeding needs to change though.

Hope you're ok OP. It's heart breaking when breast feeding doesn't go as planned.
But your child won't care...Probably wont even want to know.... how you fed them as a baby.
You have put yourself through a lot, I hope you get a chance to relax and enjoy your baby now.

For god’s sake stop being so neurotic and bottle feed the poor kid. Who cares if you breastfeed. The world won’t come to an end if you bottle feed.

In a hurry, didn’t read whole post so sorry if you’ve tried.
My dd admitted at 3 days old starving and with dehydration. Hippy friend visited with goats rue( a herb) tablets, and it hugely increased my milk supply. I went on to feed her exclusively for 5 months.
Hope that’s helpful. Ignore if you’re sick of advice

YABU. I no longer give a toss but at the time I was pretty miserable about my lack of milk. I later learned that the combination of inverted nipples, being induced and beta-blockers for hypertension post-birth all contributed to there being a low supply. I tried fennel tea, fenugreek, persistence, a pump... At least I had started combined feeding after a day or two so DS didn't get too hungry.

YANBU.

I had the opposite - but equally upsetting - phenomenon of oversupply and a violent let down. I tried for months with DC1 - had help from midwives, health visitor, my GP, hospital doctors, NCT, La Leche.

Nobody could tell me why my breasts were just constantly full and not following ‘the rules’ that they should make milk on demand and then deplete. Nope. My letdown was so violent my poor DS choked at every feed. I leaked all day and night. It was horrendous.

I got fucked off with bf forums etc after a while, as my experience wasn’t common so I must be making it up .

So many complications of pregnancy/ birth/ postnatal are poorly researched or reported.

The UK has a cultural problem with breastfeeding because so much knowledge has been lost in the last few generations by the prevelance of formula as a default method of feeding. So in the absence of any influencing factors such as physically traumatic births and underlying medical conditions, basics like cluster feeding, comparing expressed quantities to what baby recieves, milk coming in and how breasts feel through a feed are generally poorly understood and often misinterpreted as poor supply, and too often new mothers panic and find reassurance in formula. Formula while not being breast milk and as customised to baby's needs is still a great way of nourishing a baby.

My first birth was tough, long draining labour, EMCS, bloodloss/ anemia additional complications (HDU), tired baby with low blood sugar, and it took over a week for my milk to come in. "Fortunately" 36 hours in HDU gave me enough care to give me the skills to get something into baby until that point. Had I have been dumped straight on to main ward with the 1:14 ratio of MWs to mothers, I'd probably have written myself off as another failure to BF with no milk on top of failure to give birth (a guilt that has long since faded with a tough VBAC and years). I never expressed more than an ounce with the pump and found by hand better, yet after our rough start he thrived despite CMPA which became apparent on weaning. He clearly got more than an ounce!

General advice generally applies to people. OP has many specific reasons why that kind of general advice is not helpful in this instance. All you can do is your best on what you can do for you and your baby and everyone has a different threshold on that and OP has already gone further than most. If the next stage after reaching your limits is formula, so be it, without guilt.

TartsKnickers .

Yanbu
I hadn’t heard of breast hypoplasia til after my babies had grown older but I fit the physical description perfectly.
I feel so sad at the time I spent feeling horribly guilty and that it was because I didn’t try hard enough. It was massively reframed for me when I read about that condition and realised there wasn’t anything I could have done.

Another phrase not good to use “ah yes I found breastfeeding really hard too but I’m so glad/proud/it’s my greatest achievement that I persevered” (subtext - I found it as hard as you but I didn’t give up like you did)

I’ve also learnt something new today, thanks @ReanimatedSGB
I was on blood pressure beds before and after birth with each of my 3 (beta blockers I think). Seems like they also could have contributed to the issue.

You have put so much effort in! What an amazing thing you have done for your baby. Sounds like you have tried harder than most women have to, and breastfeeding is fucking hard for a lot of us. Ignore those who have any opinion at all on your situation, unless they have been beside you on your journey. Well done to you, I hope you are able to put this difficult time behind you and relax into bottle feeding. Breastfeeding is so pressurised and there is so much judgement, it's actually a great way of weeding out potentially shit friends - if you get any kind of judgy vibes from someone just get rid. for you because it hasn't worked out how you wanted. You won't see any difference between your child and another who was breastfed until 2 years, ever.

The thing that all women can breast feed annoys me, I had a horrific induction ending in a C section & me in high dependency with hellp syndrome. My milk never came in, I was as dry as a bone.

Of course there can be genuine problems with bf and it's legitimate to move away.
BUT we can't get away from the fact that our bf rates in the UK are amongst the lowest in the world. British women are no different to other women. So it makes sense to say that 90percent is issues are down to support and knowledge and most problems can be solved.
When they can't it's OK to give up.
But it's not ok to contribute to myths around 'lots of women not being able to bf' as it does not help others realistically.