Tipping in North America

[chopc]

I don't understand tipping in North America- apparently it's the biggest source of income for waiters/ tour guides etc. However all these people are employed. Isn't it up to the employer to pay them an adequate wage then the tip would be just that - an additional amount given if the customer thinks they received exceptional service. If it's a compulsory payment it's not a tip 🤔. Does anyone know the logic behind the N American way of thinking?

I always think of it as paying the service element of my meal separately. In the UK, the food and service is all included in the price stated, so any extra I choose to pay the server is for service over and above what I would naturally expect. In the USA, service is not included in the meal price, so I am simply paying the server direct for their service - I actually prefer this as I feel I get much better service over there, but I do reward this by tipping appropriately.

Unlikely that you would get anyone to come work there. I wouldn’t want that.

Really? You wouldn't want to receive a guaranteed very decent wage that's equal to what you'd expect to get under the current system, regardless of the numbers or generosity/whims of customers?

Do service workers prefer the uncertainty - and the indignity of having to run after customers who don't pay what they expect or are counting on - in the hope that over-generous tippers will outnumber those who tip below the expected (and taxed) norm or who don't tip at all? Genuine question.

Do service workers prefer the uncertainty - and the indignity of having to run after customers who don't pay what they expect or are counting on - in the hope that over-generous tippers will outnumber those who tip below the expected (and taxed) norm or who don't tip at all? Genuine question.

In my experience as a server in my early working life. The guaranteed income is never as much as a great tip day. A lot of servers would rather take the gamble

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll - I've never been to the US on holiday but did travel there for business a few times a couple of years ago and found the "service I didn't ask for" thing maddening. i didn't ask anyone to get my suitcase out of the boot of the taxi, I didn't need anyone to open the door for me and direct me to reception, I had to practically wrestle my small wheelie bag from a porter who wanted to take it to my room for me. Its mad !

Kind of like the squeegee people who pounce on your car without warning when you stop at a red light and then see it as your express duty to pay them. Highly irritating.

The thing I find so baffling with conversations with Americans about this is that they cannot see how utterly illogical it is, especially when you question it. It's as if the whole world takes a calculator to the restaurant and even if you yourself are a pauper you pay and pay again, obviously!!!

Carpet fitters - tip them 50%
Care workers - no tip, unless it's a full moon and south Wales, then its 37%.
Why? Well just because .

Read something interesting last year about tipping and

Bias, whether conscious or unconscious
Good looking people get better tips, irrespective of level of service
White people get better tips than black

And

In a situation where you need to earn your tip, does this impact on the level of poor behaviour the worker will tolerate eg young woman being sexually harassed

These were all raised as reasons when tipping was done away with in one of the states,
Interesting to see someone who lives somewhere with no tipping says everyone still tips

In usa I mean

We’ve just got back. The food is definitely not cheaper - in fact, I think it was more expensive than here. And yes, a 20% tip is pretty much expected! Even if you’re just buying an ice cream or something over the counter! We were really fed up with it by the time we left.

In my experience as a server in my early working life. The guaranteed income is never as much as a great tip day. A lot of servers would rather take the gamble

Fair enough, then. But is there actually a culture in existence of restaurants that pay a very good guaranteed wage - equal to what a standard low-paid and tipped worker would expect to take home - charge more for the food but then make it clear that tips are neither expected nor anticipated?

Interesting to learn that current/ex US serving staff don't actually hate the uncertainty of the standard system, though - I'd assumed that they would!

@Gottoloveabagel. With bar drinks, as an example in Canada (have not really been out since living in US to a bar) we’d give the bartender $1 or $2 depending on how fast and pleasantly we got served. But it did boggle my mind that I went up to the bar and ordered and still had to tip!

@Bravelurker. I’m on a foodie group for in town in the US and the general consensus is if you can’t afford to tip 20% you can’t afford to eat out. It’s just the norm. A lot of people in there seem to eat out 2-3 times a week! We only manage maybe once every 2 months

Thanks to @LizziesTwin for the interesting article. I never knew that before.

This gives the staff the opportunity to 'do a better job' and, hopefully, get paid better. I've heard British people complain about how intrusive they find waiters in the US, but the waiting staff I've spoken to say this is because they are trying to do a good job, as seen by US customers, who may expect more attentive service than British people often do.

That's very interesting. Obviously a big culture divide, as I (like a lot of Brits) hate it when waiters are in your face. I think we often like the waiter to be discreetly available to be gestured over with a raised hand and attempt to catch their eye, but the constant badgering as to how else they can help would do my nut. If anything, it would make me inclined to tip less (not that I would, as I'd understand that I was in a different country with different norms and expectations).

I don't care how much you are or aren't expected to tip, I'm happy to go along with whatever is expected so long as it is clear what you need to do! Tipping is one of the most stressful parts of travelling. The rules are vastly different depending on where you are. It's always good to research what is expected beforehand. I've learnt this the hard way

This gives the staff the opportunity to 'do a better job' and, hopefully, get paid better.

Sort of. But my worst tipping experience was in Canada when a server, female, spent the whole evening flirting with and touching the male customers, including my BF. Very pretty woman, wearing not a lot. I'm sure she made great tips. But it did feel very uncomfortable.

I also said, "if she touches you again she isn't even getting 5% on this bill" as she was walking away. And she did stop.

It does strike me as open to servers being treated poorly, and open to discrimination.

In my experience as a server in my early working life. The guaranteed income is never as much as a great tip day. A lot of servers would rather take the gamble.

I have never worked as a server but both of my children have, and I am sure that they would agree with this. They often had very good tips days, and their weekly pay averaged by hour was always in excess of the minimum wage, sometimes considerably so.

Having said that, I am not all that fond of the tipping culture, but it is so deeply imbedded in our system that I think it would be hard to change. As for it being demeaning, my daughter once described it has having two employers, the restaurant and her customer. She certainly did not see it as demeaning to try to do a good job for both and be compensated accordingly in return.

Many thanks for all of you on this thread who do follow the tipping customs, btw. I live in a state that relies heavily on tourism for its economy. Some Europeans do not tip, but I think that is changing as more people are aware of the customs and the impact on the server if they don't (helped perhaps by discreet signs and language on the bill.)

From my personal experience food isn’t THAT much better value in the US. I compare my experiences in London vs New York and actually restaurant food is relatively similar in price. Everything from fast food joints to fine dining. Certainly not 15-20% difference.

I understand it’s the culture though so I do it. HOWEVER regardless of ‘culture’ I do not tip bad service. I tip average service 10% good 15% and excellent 20%

But that being said I’ve also never had bad service in the US. I think servers are bloody great in the US probably because they know they’ll get 20% if they are!

I actually don’t really understand the % thing either. 🤔 is the plate heavier or harder to carry because the meal cost more? Is the service required ANY different between a $20 meal and a $45 one?

Surely just calculating tip on a $ per head basis would be more reasonable!

I think servers should be paid a reasonable wage myself, but it's not how it works. It's a bloody unfair system though.

Okay but just so the PPs know, it’s a $1 tip for drinks not 20%

Please do not tip less than 10 percent ever if you come to the U.S. The normal rate is between fifteen and twenty percent at restaurants. It is the cost of going out to eat at a restaurant that has waiters and waitresses. If you don't tip these people, you are being a bad person. I remember a British person saying in a scandalized tone, "So what am I supposed to do if I don't have money for a tip--not go out to eat?" The answer it 100 percent yes. Or go to McDonalds.

This gives the staff the opportunity to 'do a better job' and, hopefully, get paid better. I've heard British people complain about how intrusive they find waiters in the US, but the waiting staff I've spoken to say this is because they are trying to do a good job, as seen by US customers, who may expect more attentive service than British people often do

@amicissimma I’m from the uk and have travelled the The US a few times. I don’t have an issue with tipping, it’s part of their culture. My understanding of why tipping is normal is how you’ve explained it.
I noticed Americans are happy to pay for service, whether that be a better table, served quicker at the bar, assistance with luggage so they provide a small payment to the person at the bar/hotel/restaurant to facilitate that. In America you use money to make life better for yourself and deal with things. Nothing is expected for free.

I am sure some service workers make good tips and are happy with the set up. I’m sure there is exploitation too. I’m also sure a lot of American service staff get pissed off with Brits who don’t pay for the service they have been provided with, especially in restaurants. I think that’s deplorable not to tip for a sit down meal actually. American culture gets a lot of bashing on MN because some British people assume the culture is the same or worse, that it should be like ours. It’s bloody arrogant.

@HerRoyalNotness, I disagree with that actually. A restaurant is much like a supermarket, in which you can shop cheaply or you can splash out.
I am poor and know all the places where you pay £7 for a main course, my DB on the other hand will not pay anything less than £50 for a steak.
Not all restaurants are created equally, they are not just the purveyors of the very wealthy. Nobody says you are poor, therefore you cannot eat or shop, you just eat or shop in affordable places.

I live in California is and it is definitely not cheaper to eat out here than the UK

Also agree with everyone else, tipping is the culture and part of the cost of the meal. If you can’t afford it don’t go out

Trust me on this: neither waiters/waitresses nor Americans in general think it is okay for foreigners to be cheap tippers and pretend that they don't know that they are supposed to tip at least fifteen percent. Come on, people. We know you have tv and have watched American shows all your damned lives. You know we tip 15 percent. Europeans, especiallhy Brits, have a bad reputation. We watch you with beady eyes when you pay your bills to see if you're going to stiff the waiters "on principle." Hurting working people on vacation is one of the nastiest things travelers can do. Don't do it.

I actually don’t really understand the % thing either. 🤔 is the plate heavier or harder to carry because the meal cost more? Is the service required ANY different between a $20 meal and a $45 one?

That's a very good point indeed. It's completely unjustifiable if you're claiming that the money is payment for the service performed.

I often think the same of estate agents in the UK - why should you pay them a much greater sum for their work in selling your one high-end house than somebody would pay them for pretty much the same work in selling their one lower-end house? It's not like selling a £100K home to people with a £1m budget is any easier or much more likely than selling a £1m home to people with £100K to spend.

Amazon don't pay their delivery people twenty times more for delivering a gaming laptop than they would for delivering a package of the same size and weight but containing a bulky textbook.