Tipping in North America

[chopc]

I don't understand tipping in North America- apparently it's the biggest source of income for waiters/ tour guides etc. However all these people are employed. Isn't it up to the employer to pay them an adequate wage then the tip would be just that - an additional amount given if the customer thinks they received exceptional service. If it's a compulsory payment it's not a tip 🤔. Does anyone know the logic behind the N American way of thinking?

Outrageous. What if the device is below par? It can make for very awkward exchanges and should be illegal.
Just charge more for food and pay staff a decent living wage.

My daughter worked as a waitress through college. Her hourly rate was $3.25 an hour. She never actually got a check from her employer as it was all taken in taxes. Her tip money was all she got. This was at a big "sports bar" chain so not a little place bending rules.

There is no way will be able to afford 20% tips this year with the pound crashed. It’s obscene amount anyway.

get off plane get to cab/Transfer TIP, Arrive at Hotel porter takes bags TIP, arrive at reception book in TIP, staff hold door for you TIP, go out for lunch TIP, dinner TIP, supper TIP, leave TIP for cleaners, repeat 7-14 days......Utter nonsense

I do agree with this, although the whole system is obviously set up this way to deprive working people of their right to a guaranteed wage.

Having said that, though, it must be infuriating to be expected to tip somebody for doing what may be a very inconsequential task for you that you never wanted or needed somebody else to do - parking your car, holding the door open, carrying your bags etc. I would prefer to do these myself (I realise that some people might appreciate/need help carrying bags), so I would deeply resent somebody charging me for a service that I never requested. Then again, I suppose it's the accepted thing that you have to suck up if you choose to stay in those hotels.

Just maybe, if enough people could be persuaded to change the language they use rather than just stop the tips altogether, it might show it up for what it is.

If, when filling out the check, everybody added in the tip amount as normal but crossed out the word 'tip' and replaced it with 'otherwise insolvent/immoral business subsidy - inadequate wage top-up' and started referring to it loudly in the same terms, it couldn't fail to go unnoticed eventually. Without depriving the low-paid workers of their income, put the onus on to the business to pay fair wages instead of the customer to have to pay a tip.

Out of interest, I do wonder if a brave person could start a small chain of 'Fair-Wage' restaurants in the US and make it abundantly clear that their workers all receive a decent wage, so the price you are charged is all you are expected/required to pay (apart from any government or state taxes, of course) - could that eventually spread and lead to a culture where people ARE paid a proper wage instead of having to rely on handouts. Well, you can dream, I suppose....

Out of interest, I do wonder if a brave person could start a small chain of 'Fair-Wage' restaurants in the US and make it abundantly clear that their workers all receive a decent wage, so the price you are charged is all you are expected/required to pay (apart from any government or state taxes, of course) - could that eventually spread and lead to a culture where people ARE paid a proper wage instead of having to rely on handouts.

Unlikely that you would get anyone to come work there. I wouldn’t want that.

Service in America is notably friendlier and more attentive, so I think tipping does make a difference to perfor

I can’t get excited about it though - if there wasn’t an expectation of tipping then costs would be higher. I always tip - servers are taxed on the expectation of tips.

There is no way will be able to afford 20% tips this year with the pound crashed. It’s obscene amount anyway.

Then you shouldn't eat out. Absurd as it is, those waiters and waitresses rely on your tips to live. They don't give a shit about the exchange rate.

Tough shit. And I will eat out. It’s not mandatory.

Hmmm my sister went to uni in the States and waitressed. Her wage was $2 something an hour. Tips made up most of her income tbh. The basic brackets she said they have is 10% for average service to 20% for good service. In regards to bottles of wine, she said it’s normal not to tip that portion of the bill because they are quite expensive. She did also say that some customers who lingered at their table would leave a more generous tip in recognition that she could have served two groups in the time they took to eat thus cutting her earning potential for her shift. So much about these kinds of etiquette rules baffles me.

Can't wait for somebody to spit in @IheartNiles's food. Tough shit, eh?

Sorry but tips are earned not expected. I see this all the time with hairdresser groups on fb when they start fucking whining about not getting tipped/tipped enough. Your employer should pay you properly to start with. I only tip if service has been worth the tip. Wouldnt do it just for the sake of it or cos its 'the norm'.

And fuck off with the 'if you cant afford to tip then dont eat out'.
If your boss cant/wont pay staff properly they shouldnt be in business.

The service in some of the restaurants was shite and I would have chosen not to leave a tip if it wasn't compulsory

But the tip isn't just for your server, the server has to tip the other staff.

It pisses me off too, I don't tip here and Very rarely will I tip when in USA, unless it has been exceptional customer service, it's not my problem that the owners are not paying decent wages, i work hard for my money and I'm not just going to tip because society says so!

That means the server is paying for you to eat.

There is some misinformation on this thread.

We have a national minimum wage in the US and it covers wait staff in restaurants and other service occupations. For example, a restaurant can have a base pay that is lower than the minimum wage, taking into account an estimate of what the employees tips would be. But if the total including tips does not work out to minimum wage, the restaurant has to make up the difference with additional pay.

Fuck yourself Baggy. Difficult to spit in food after a person has eaten and paid. I won’t be able to pay 20%. It’s not written on the bill. They are probably on better wages than U.K. citizens at the moment.

Niles, you can afford a holiday in the US, but can’t afford to pay a tip?

I can afford a tip yes and I will tip. But I won’t be told that I MUST tip 20%. A tip is entirely voluntary and at the discretion of the tipper. Not a bunch of randoms on mumsnet.

Plenty of US states have a minimum wage that applies to restaurant staff the same as all other workers.

Minimum wage is a national law that applies to all states. Some states that have high costs of living have higher minimum wage.

@WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll - I've never been to the US on holiday but did travel there for business a few times a couple of years ago and found the "service I didn't ask for" thing maddening. i didn't ask anyone to get my suitcase out of the boot of the taxi, I didn't need anyone to open the door for me and direct me to reception, I had to practically wrestle my small wheelie bag from a porter who wanted to take it to my room for me. Its mad !

I reconciled myself to having to tip for meals and to the hotel cleaners but being expected to give money to someone who did something I didn't ask for or want, sorry....nope.

Also, I'd just arrived in the country. I have 10 and 20 dollar bills from the Bureau de Change and I'll be damned if you're having one of them.

Then you shouldn't eat out. Absurd as it is, those waiters and waitresses rely on your tips to live. They don't give a shit about the exchange rate

And I don't care about their stone-age employment practices! The employers are the ones relying on your tips to circumvent tax and to subsudise the poor wages they pay their staff.
It amazes me that Americans seem almost proud of cheating a large percentage of their population of a living wage. A tip should be for service above and beyond the norm, not for putting a plate in front of me, that's their job after all. They seem to think that inane chatter with the customer constitutes 'good service', no, I really don't want to discuss my day with you.
In a cafeteria where one queued, collected a meal, collected cutlery, took the tray to a clearance area after eating had a box next to the area for 'Tips' that was shaken at you if you ignored it.

Minimum wage is a national law that applies to all states. Some states that have high costs of living have higher minimum wage.

Thanks for clarifying that - apologies for my misconstruing the situation. Even so, I gather that the lowest minimum wages must be extremely low indeed for the whole tipping thing as necessary for service workers to be able to live to actually exist.

I really dislike the general Us approach to tipping. Not restaurants so much because I’m used to tipping in UK restaurants. But as a PP mentioned, every time you do something travelling you’re expected to tip someone for something. It just makes it feel like everyone has their bloody hand out and I just find it very awkward.

I think tipping is absurd. It's a ball ache trying to work out how much to tip, it's another ball ache when you don't have cash and there's no option on the card reader to tip. The culture is fucking stupid.

It's not my fault these employers don't want to pay their employees a decent wage. I prefer restaurants that add a mandatory service charge.

The US is a different country to the UK, with different ways of doing things. I don't think it's reasonable for British people to say they 'should' do things a different way because that's what we do.

As far as I can tell from talking to Americans one of the main ideas of life there is that a person has the right to try to improve his or her lot by his or her own efforts, with minimal interference from the State. You see this in the way that taxes are not shown as part of the price of items, but added when you come to pay, so that it is clear to everyone how much is taken by the government.

Waiting staff are employed by the restaurant to be available to serve the customer, but the customer is expected to pay for the actual service. This gives the staff the opportunity to 'do a better job' and, hopefully, get paid better. I've heard British people complain about how intrusive they find waiters in the US, but the waiting staff I've spoken to say this is because they are trying to do a good job, as seen by US customers, who may expect more attentive service than British people often do.

It's the same situation with taxi drivers, bell hops, etc, etc. It's a different way of doing things born from a country with a pioneering, get-on-and-work-your-way-to-sucess history.