Sir James Talbot tackles Mrs. Jack Maynard's Displaced Organ

[QuaterMiss]

Would I be unreasonable to initiate legal proceedings against this man?

Previous thread here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3624032-Not-to-have-realised-until-now-that-Joey-Maynard-s-displaced-organ-was-a-prolapse?

With thanks to Jemima232 for rifling through Sir James’ archives to supply the title of this one.

I must reread the War ones since I've only read the abridged ones.

I also feel for these little villages where the Big House gets taken over by a school which builds lots of random extra bits, causes epic chaos, brings with it a cast of OGs and their massive broods...and then buggers off a few years later. Probably destroying the local economy, reducing the housing available for locals etc

And also in one book gives the whole village German measles!

The Christys at least were loaded, thanks to Commander Christy finding his evil ancestor's treasure and selling it.

Yy, @CarrotVan. Angela Brazil's evacuated schools that end up in manor houses/castles tend to be very small, and it's very clear they're 'camping' in someone else's house, plus they don't touch the fabric of the building -- but the CS seems to reinvent its temporary homes very much as fully-fledged schools, and suddenly a former family home is sprouting dormitories and labs etc.

Mind you, I've often thought that EBD has some weird ideas about shrinking/expanding domestic space, anyway, the way she depicts people living in the original CS building in subsequent years (wouldn't it be absolutely enormous, even if the separate houses were now separate family homes?), or Madge and Jem (and later the Maynards?) buying and living in what used to be St Scholastika's. And isn't it Mr Flower who buys either the CS or the San buildings when the school leaves Tyrol -- because what you need in the middle of a war, when you're a random US businessman, is a large former school in occupied territory? Or Anchsclussed.

@KeepStill
And be in [hilarious] tableaux. And dress up in sheets & pillowcases. Can you imagine if there were an air-raid during a sheets & pillowcases party & you had to dash off to fire watch (or similar) thus attired?

@Marie, that is making me remember Thekla setting her frilly underwear on fire while jumping over candles as part of one of the weirder Saturday nights or am I wrong, and it's someone else? It baffled me when I was little that she was being blamed for wearing the 'wrong petticoat' but presumably she was supposed to wear regulation school gym knickers under her evening dress for this kind of 'evening' to avoid one of those 'naked flame and frills' disasters from Victorian melodrama...?

CBB posters, what happened to Cosimo's Jackal? Anyone know? Were they banned? They were one of the more cynical posters on the CBB, IIRC.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/site_stuff/3677320-The-Chalet-School-Thread-aka-Dr-James-Talbot-etc

This is pathetic bumping but I thought other Chalet School aficionados might help. In the true Old Girls spirit (older than I wish to admit in my case).

Apart from getting the Sir/Dr thing wrong (come to my cubicle tonight, Sir James, and I'll make amends ), why is this the only thread that I'm watching but don't get updates on? What have I done wrongly?

It takes ages to catch up when I notice it and I was worried my "Site Stuff" thread might sink without trace.

CBB posters, what happened to Cosimo's Jackal? Anyone know? Were they banned? They were one of the more cynical posters on the CBB, IIRC

@PhilSwagielka, I was Cosimo's Jackal, though I'd completely forgotten that was my CBB name until I saw your post, and am amused I remembered as 'cynical'!

(I've just done my weekly namechange, but am a regular on Mn, and look in on the CS threads regularly.)

No, I wasn't banned. It feels like a long time ago now, but from what I remember, I felt that the board was becoming increasingly intolerant of anything other than the most uncritical discussion -- and anything else was derided by a few regulars (whose names I've forgotten) as 'Joey-bashing', and I got bored.

I mean, if you can't have a discussion about how interesting it is that, having had Joey and co escape from the Nazis, not once but twice, EBD then doesn't seem to take much interest in writing about their perspectives of war on the 'home front' and indeed there's some rather snide writing about cockney evacuee children, which seems uncharacteristically unsympathetic from characters who, after all, have also been displaced by the war until the 'missing Jack and second sight' episode and whichever German OG's brother it is who throws the note out of his plane, without it being 'Joey-bashing'...

Are the old crowd still there? Alison H and people?

Well hello there! I'm not saying what my name on there is, but I'm relatively new. I've seen your name in the archives though. And yeah, there are certain members who really, really do not like any critical discussion because 'they're kids' books' (so are the Narnia books, so are HP, but loads of people pick them apart) or because they're massive fans of Mary-Lou or whatever. And yeah, Joey and co not taking in evacuees is something that's worth discussing, but they do get super defensive about it. One member got really arsey about any criticism of Joey Goes to the Oberland.

Alison still is, as is Lottie, cestina and a couple of others. Karl Linders was the one who threw a message out of the plane.

Btw were you and Sunglass the same person? You had a similar typing style and they were pretty critical as well, but then I seem to remember one of you was Irish and the other one wasn't.

Were Mary Burnett and Gillian Linton assumed to be a thing? There’s a bit in Gay from China or Mystery where “they forget to be responsible teachers for a glorious half hour” which sounds like a euphemism to me

There’s a bit in Gay from China or Mystery where “they forget to be responsible teachers for a glorious half hour” which sounds like a euphemism to me

I am clearly a total innocent, as I vaguely imagined it involving giggling and neglecting their darning or something.

Do you know, I honestly don't remember, @PhilSwagielka? It feels like centuries ago.

I don't think of myself as being particularly either 'critical' or 'cynical', it's just that I don't think that an enjoyable discussion of a series of girls' school stories should limit you to saying 'Ooh, I love this bit!' for fear of causing offence to someone who would give ten years off their life to have attended the reunion at Freudesheim or who thinks that prefects with a habit of quoting Psalm 121 (I always imagine Mary-Lou doing it in a Special Reverent Voice) every time they see a mountain is charming.

I mean, it's possible to thoroughly enjoy the billionth description of the dainty decor of the Leafy dormitory/Kaffee und Kuchen/curtsying to the Head while still thinking EBD's gender and class politics were fairly dubious from time to time.

And that her editor should just have forbidden her writing any proposal scenes...

I liked your posts, I'm not having a go at you. I always found the critical discussions really interesting. There's one right now about Maynard Power and how Margot gets away with murder, almost literally. Like when she bullies Evelyn in Challenge, another girl gets injured and all she gets is 'aww, poor you, you've got a hard row to hoe'.

I think some fans on the CBB just want to enjoy the books without thinking too hard or seeing them picked apart because 'EBD was writing for schoolgirls'. For me, although I do love them, it's hard to enjoy certain bits because they're so against everything I believe in, e.g. the constant use of the n-word or EBD's obsession with looks and how being ugly and not trig and dainty makes you a bad person.

Keep still, Thelma wanted to wear a frilly dress and petticoat but was told she had to wear regulation stuff. In a fit or 'I'll show you' she wore the frilly petticoat and tied it up around her waist to make it shorter. In jumping over the candles it fell down and caught fire. I've just re-read that one.

Even by the CS appalling standards, that ‘jumping over the lit candles’ game was a spectacular health and safety fail.

Thelka should have sued.

I’ve just finished Prefects. Hmm, it was a bit dull. Far too many chapters devoted to the sale or fete or whatever it was.
And Creepy Dr Reg!

Oh good grief... when the CBB was all fields (etc) there was a lot of v critical discussion. Because people were capable of understanding you could both love the books very much AND want to discuss them in-depth (& not in a “I think you’ll find that Tiny Nitpicky Detail means the thing you made a passing mention of might not be right - totally irrelevant, BUT LET ME JUST BRING IT UP TO SHOW YOU I KNOW THE BOOKS BEST AND AM A TRUE CHALET GIRL” sort of way). That said, I did, a few years in to being a member, genuinely get some people all aggrieved because I was being “too intellectual” about things. To be clear, I wasn’t going about citing papers/books/articles/PhDs or anything. Just committing the crimes of Using Big Words & trying to discuss things relating to the books I thought were interesting (don’t even remember what now) but apparently made other people Feel Excluded because they didn’t understand (Which is the point where I’d think “not for me then” not “well how dare this person want to discuss things at a level they’re comfortable with I MUST SHAME THEM IMMEDIATELY!” - presumably forerunners of the “they’re just kids books, let us read them totally uncritically” movement.

@KeepStill - as PPs have said, illegal!petticoat was due to being aggrieved about not being allowed to wear her fancy one (as they’d be leaping around over candles to determine how many months of the year they’d have good luck) & she decides she’ll wear what she wants & ends up Learning The Hard (& flamey) way. Think it’s also a chance for EBD to be “yay Guides!” as Obviously The Guides Know What To Do.

Really dislike fact EBD binned off the Guides in the Swiss books, but wonder if she [felt she] couldn’t keep up with the Programme changes. Even if that was her reason, she found time to read all the guidebooks for Switzerland, she could’ve read a Guide Handbook. Am sure the Queen’s Guide Award would’ve made it into the news when it launched in 1946; & tbh, pretty certain that she’d’ve been able to trade a quick update on what the various sections were up to for testing a local Guide or two for their Writer badge or speaking to some Rangers about Being An Author etc... (Girlguiding: exploiting everyone you know for the girls in your Units since 1910 )

I liked the Guide stuff and agree that she should have kept it in the Swiss books. I mean, mountains, lakes, forests, it's perfect for camping and other shenanigans.

I snark the hell out of the books, but I genuinely like them. They're like comfort food. I've been meaning to write an article for Did You Ever Stop To Think? about Exile, because it's a very powerful book, especially the sentiments about differentiating Germans and Nazis - a brave thing to do at the time, which is one reason why the Swiss books are depressing in comparison. It's like EBD was going through the motions by the end of it. Also, as a Jewish reader, I find the OTT Christianity hard to stomach. In the Tyrolean books, it's realistic. Tyrol was and is super Catholic. In the Swiss books, it's fucking mental. Like, a group of teenage girls doing a communal Hail Mary when they get lost? In the '50s? Spare me.

The archives have some really interesting discussions - the one about class was a huge eyeopener for me. And the books work well as period pieces and examples of social norms for women and girls back then, especially Oberland, which seems to be an etiquette guide.

@MarieVanGoethem, that does all sound very familiar! I wonder if we were on the CBB at the same time?

I seem to remember having an entrenched debate with someone who simply would not recognise that the characters were not real and that EBD did not select scenes from their full lives to describe for us.

I mean, that’s the alchemy of storytelling, obviously, that a bunch of words lives and makes us think of it as a friend long after we close the book, but at the same time, Joey or Madge and the School only exist in the scenes and details EBD writes, so it makes no sense to insist with increasing shrillness, that of course Madge and Joey took in umpteen evacuees, treated them brilliantly, and permanently transformed their lives during WWII, or that lots of girls at the CS hated the food and had undiscovered midnight feasts with tuck, it’s just that EBD chose not to mention either of them!

@Phil, this cradle Catholic found Jack and co kneeling and saying fervent Hail Marys when lost equally incredible — and when I first read the CS I was still having a very devout upbringing at a convent school, but I still didn’t buy it. I think EBD had the zeal of the convert, and decided to give that to everyone in the CS world.

Phil
There’s also a Guide World Centre just over in Adelboden - CS Guides could have had heaps of fun meeting & blatantly kidnapping Guides & Girl Scouts from all over the world. No idea how long the wood carver that everyone who goes to Our Chalet then hikes along to visit has been there (apart from me, because I dashed up there on free afternoon of a choir tour; should have skipped dinner that evening & gone to woodcarver, not least because I was charged exorbitant sum for rice & vegetables...) but PERFECT venue for a CS expedition. Also, bet CS girls would love doing their Stalker Badge. They’d doubtless opt to stalk someone Totally Unsuitable & all sorts of potential Alarums & Excursions would result.

Idaho
Pooosssssibly? I was around c2003-7ish. Was even a Mod. Thankfully I DON’T remember someone who was convinced the characters were real, because I don’t think I could’ve handled that...

In the 1960s (& possibly even 70s) my Granny, Mummy, Aunt & Uncle (& indeed I think my Grandad) used to carry wee cards that said “I am a Catholic: if I have an accident, please call a Priest”. Provided by my great-aunt. A nun in a Carmelite order. Think she’s the only one of them who’d have taken the prayer option [early on] in the lost-in-mountains situation (as opposed to the “days in, last hope” type-thing)

I suppose the other option to EBD having that much faith is that she wanted to, or felt she somehow should. She wanted prayer to immediately bring comfort & reassurance or to convince herself that it did. So she wrote it... Cheery & optimistic, c’est moi.

I don't think anyone thought the characters were real, but they do get defensive over their faves. There's one user who's a massive fan of Mary-Lou, and slags Joey off all the time but gets annoyed when people criticise Mary-Lou. Even though she can get very irritating to read about in the Swiss books with all the Jesus stuff and 'I lift mine eyes to the hills'.

I'm a convert myself, so I understand the convert mentality, but having things like bedtime confessions creeped me out. Antonia Forest handled religion a lot better IMO.

@MarieVanGoethem. I don't think it was so much that they were convinced the characters were literally real, it was that they wouldn't see that, while of course EBD might have head-canoned that in fact, Joey and Madge took in fifty evacuees apiece, sang them to sleep nightly with 'The Red Sarafan' and subsequently supported them throughout their educations as Jack does Awful Reg, a novel is not like a reality TV programme where the camera and edit only captures some of what really went on in the Celebrity Big Brother house, say.

In a novel, there's no facility for a character 'really' doing something 'offstage' which the camera/narrator doesn't pick up on.

I admit I may have quoted 'There is nothing outside the text' at one point! It was probably at that point I realised I should move on...

I wonder why EBD didn't use Guides more to provide more realistic ways for the girls to get into trouble outdoors, even in the parts of the series which do have Guides. Joey (and Rufus) do impressive feats of following Elisaveta's kidnappers using stalking techniques, and doesn't Elisaveta leave a trail for them to follow? But we don't see those being taught. And there could have been Guide hikes that go wrong (like the disastrous one in Antonia Forest's Autumn Term), plus it would even have given more opportunities for peril to see the girls being taught map reading and compass use in the mountains.

Weirdly, the Guide camp book, though I like it (especially when Joey throws up on the fake corpse/artist's mannequin ) isn't a very exciting one. You have the hornets and Joey's hole, but most of it is about making meals and disastrous attempts at laundry.

The Guide camp book was the first one I read. I was 6. I remember holding it up to my mum in the bookshop and her raising her eyebrows and saying ‘are you sure? It says there are SIXTY TWO of them.’ Silly mum. That was the whole point.

Because I was 6, and it was book ?10 in the series, and wasn’t actually about the school at all, I had not a fucking clue what was going on. Still hooked.

My mum bought me CS books when I was in Year 7 but when I bought one as a teen, she told me I should read proper books. She's kind of resigned to the fact that I collect them now.

We had a few in the school library and Camp was one of them. I remember my local library in Chester, where I lived as a teen, had some of the Swiss ones, but I can't find them in libraries now.

I also like to credit the books with me learning German - they were definitely one of the reasons why I took German in Year 9 (that and I love languages, and the alternative was Environmental Studies, which I had no interest in). We were asked in German class to think of German names and one of the ones I came up with was 'Gisela', after the OG Head Girl.