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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Bullying BIL - does he have legal rights?

58 replies

Daydreamer246 · 01/08/2019 14:46

Please be gentle...first time poster and I'm really at my wits end so I'm hoping this all makes sense!

To cut a potentially long story short(er)- we don't speak to BIL and his wife. They are incredibly self-centred, arrogant and have tried to bully me for years (icing me out, blanking me when we were all together as a family, acting like I wasn't there when I try to speak to them etc.). We have never had a proper answer as to why this started but it appears it's because I started working extra hours on weekends and they were 'offended' that I did not come along to family events very often (!!). They have been increasingly unreasonable and nasty with absolutely no regard or respect for personal boundaries. After 4 years of this behaviour myself and DH said we no longer wish to be around such a horrible, uncomfortable environment. We have never retaliated back to their ongoing nasty comments just said we do not want to be around this anymore. Our children still see BIL when they are with FIL and MIL (although DD has also always disliked being around BIL since she was very small due to his pushy behaviour).

After a lot of effort (!) we recently planned to have a day out with MIL and a few other extended family members on saturday. The same family members will be spending the whole day with BIL and his family the next day (sunday). However, MIL has reported her saturday plans back to BIL who is now enraged, saying they are going to turn up where we are on the saturday and we can't stop them from doing so. Worse still, MIL is now furious with us, saying she can't understand why we won't just accept this and we shouldn't have a problem with it. I am now feeling extremely uncomfortable with the way things are going. Especially as our children had chosen what we were doing and were really excited to have us present when they see MIL (as she usually just wants to take our children and do things without me and DH there).

I feel as though BIL is losing his mind because he has never had anyone say no to him before. I am becoming increasingly concerned about his OTT behaviour and it is making me feel uncomfortable having my children around BIL at all because they seem to be set on playing games and using our own children as a weapon against us (there is far more that has happened than I can go into on this post!). Everytime I think this situation can't get anymore ridiculous it does and I'm now worried about what is going to come next. BIL, his wife and MIL are now saying we are stopping BIL from seeing our children because we won't do exactly as they say - we haven't stopped them at all (they still see them more often than my siblings who I am on great terms with!), but I am now considering limiting his access (which I never thought I would say) due to his worryingly narcissistic behaviour.

I know this might sound a bit dramatic....but I suppose my main question is does he have any legal 'right' to our children? He is very wealthy in comparison to us and I wouldn't put it past him to go to some extreme lengths to get his own way if we pull back from him even more.

OP posts:

Haworthia · 01/08/2019 14:48

Of course he doesn’t. No rights whatsoever.

Disfordarkchocolate · 01/08/2019 14:51

I don't think so, grandparents rights are hard enough to gain in reality. If this is the attitude of you IL's I have no idea why you leave your children with them. They are not nice people and do not support you, this will be noticed by your children.

DeRigueurMortis · 01/08/2019 14:53

No, he has no legal right to your children whatsoever and neither does your MIL (afaik apart from very extenuating circumstances which would apply here).

Personally I'd ditch the lot of them if they can't accept your boundaries and frankly they sound awful anyway.

You have to strong, in a sense like parenting in not making threats you don't then follow through on.

As for this weekend make clear that if BIL turns up you will leave and be prepared to do just that. No arguments/discussion just pack up and go.

Then make clear to MIL that if she allows BIL to muscle in on plans again then there won't be a next time, because she'll only see her GC at your house under supervision.

DeRigueurMortis · 01/08/2019 14:54

Sorry "wouldn't apply"

HappyHammy · 01/08/2019 14:55

Sounds awful but I am confused. Is he married to yours or your dh sister. What does she think of all this. Why would a bil have rights to see your children.? Do your children even want to see him and how old are they. I would speak to a solicitor for advice and ignore him. He sounds a bully. I would still go to the family event. Why let them ruin a family occasion. Could you just keep out their way and still enjoy yourselves.

NigellaAwesome · 01/08/2019 14:55

I'd rearrange your Saturday plans and do something else. I agree with pp, I don't know why you even see your ILs at all if this is their attitude to you. I definitely would not let my DC anywhere near your BIL and his wife, even when at your PILs.

Bunglefromrainbow · 01/08/2019 14:57

This is a really strange story OP.

I wouldn't put yourself in any situation that you are not 100% comfortable with. The same goes for your Children.

I'm sure there are family and personal dynamics that mean your children spend time with your PILs but if this was me I'd be stopping all contact with BIL meaning if he's going to be around at his parents then I would not send the children. Of course he has zero rights.

I would also tell him that he is not free to see your children ever again and that there's nothing that he can do about it. Sounds like he's far too used to getting his own way and needs taking down a peg or two.

BarbariansMum · 01/08/2019 14:58

About time you did stop your children having contact with your BiL if you dont mind me saying. And tell your MiL she sees her grandchildren with you or not at all.

You really dont need legal advice. You are the parents, you decide.

Sunandrainallconfusedhere · 01/08/2019 14:59

Bil is barmy. As is mil. Unsupervised access to your dc? Are you nuts too?
Spend your time with nicer people.
You aren't obligated or legally bound to bother with any of them..

funnylittlefloozie · 01/08/2019 15:00

He has no rights to your children. He can try to take you to court for access, but he wont get anywhere.

I would be sorely tempted just to laugh at the idiot whenever i could, purely because i know it would enrage him even further.

pallisers · 01/08/2019 15:02

A grown man is throwing a tantrum because his mummy and daddy are having a day out with his brother's family. Deeply weird.

I'd be letting contact with the whole lot of them dwindle to almost nothing.

IAskTooManyQuestions · 01/08/2019 15:04

No he doesnt have 'rights' .

Saharafordessert · 01/08/2019 15:07

I would also be wary of mil spending time with your children alone, she seems to ‘side with ’ bil or enable his behaviour.

BerylReader · 01/08/2019 15:07

I have a similar situation with a sibling. Doesn’t like being told things if it doesn’t fit into a view where they can always be right. DM has always done this and it has made her life miserable. For several reasons I keep my DC away from them. Yes, I am made out to be the bad guy for it but I don’t wish to have my DC witness to their behaviour or see that it’s OK to condone it and allow yourself to be treated like that. It used to upset me as I always thought taking the more adult approach (as you have done) would eventually pay off. It hasn’t. However, my DC are more important. I don’t want them to see that I always have to be the one that has to be the bigger person but really allow yourself to be treated in such a way to keep the peace.

ClaireElizabethBeuchampFraser · 01/08/2019 15:08

I agree with above, your PIL are clearly flying monkeys to your narcissistic BIL, which means to cut BIL out you will need to enforce a period of NC with your PIL. Or at the very least only allow supervised access to your PIL. You are the parents, your MIL does not get to dictate to you where she sees your children or even if she gets your children on her own. I would be very concerned that your BIL has engineered this entire situation so that he gets access to your children without you being there. Your daughter dislikes her Uncle, please listen to her, he sounds like a very dangerous man and I would NOT want my daughter near him.

I am not insinuating sexual abuse, emotional and psychological abuse are incredibly damaging! This man is already manipulating your children and threatening to destroy a planned family day out. This needs to be nipped in the bud immediately.

Juells · 01/08/2019 15:10

I would distance myself from all of them. That kind of toxic manipulative behaviour can be learned by children, I wouldn't want mine exposed to it.

I can't imagine my own brother, never mind BiL, kicking up because he felt entitled to have access to my children. It's batshit crazy.

Juells · 01/08/2019 15:13

Oh, and go somewhere else for the day out, not the place you'd planned. BiL will probably turn up there with his mother, loins girded ready to put you in your place.

Lweji · 01/08/2019 15:17

Of course he doesn't have any rights.

If possible I'd probably move the plans for that location to a different day, so that the children lose out and not invite MIL, and go elsewhere for this date. Alternatively, change the times for this plan for earlier or later.
The thing is that I'd be very tempted to cut MIL out of any such activities if she keeps telling BIL about it, or just let her know about actual plans on the way there.

KeepFuckingOff · 01/08/2019 15:18

Fuck them all off and go somewhere else, MIL too. Tell her it’s cancelled and go and do something with DH and your kids.

LemonBreeland · 01/08/2019 15:20

You should absolutely stop him seeing your DC. I'm surprised that you allow it anyway. As for PIL, they can see DC with you or not at all. I don't understand this need for grandparents to have alone time with DGC and why parents allow it unless it suits them.

Roussette · 01/08/2019 15:20

You need to ask yourself WHY does he want to see your children?? That is very weird. I never felt like that about my seeing my siblings' children. They're nice enough and great to have cousins to mine but for your BIL it seems like you say... you've said NO and he won't accept it.

I presume this is your DH's brother? What does he say? Why isn't he squaring up to his brother and telling him to eff off? This is his family, he should be sorting it more

Fragalino · 01/08/2019 15:21

Op this is bizzare.

I'm highly suspicious of why this grown man cares so much this is very extreme worrying behaviour.

I agree with pp posters to pull right back. You sound worn down and boiled like the frog 🐸. Ie this is your normal but please listen this is not normal.
Your Mil sounds utterly bizzare as well.

If I were you and your dh I'd be taking a huge step back with the lot of them. Decline invites and pull back the children

Fragalino · 01/08/2019 15:24

lemon I cannot fathom this need for alone time either. Its bonkers.. I can't imagine the pleasure of being with my dc and their dc at same time and if they want baby sitter, wonderful but not essential for me or dh.

I strongly suspect its the more controlling mils that need this time alone to do things their way and pretend to be mum again

InTheHeatofLisbon · 01/08/2019 15:25

No he definitely doesn't have any rights, my XHs das tried that with DS1 to make a point and was told by the sheriff (Scotland) he didn't have any rights at all as a grandparent, let alone an uncle!

He sounds like a horrid man, I'd not be letting my children anywhere near him. Toxic entitled arseholes won't think twice about involving children in their horrid point scoring and attacks.

If your MIL is determined to support him, well she misses out too. Her decision, her loss.

Lweji · 01/08/2019 15:25

It's probably a power trip for him

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