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AIBU?

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Original poster

Employee taking the proverbial...and leaving us up the creek!

97 replies

Tedp · 31/07/2019 21:54

Sorry folks, it's a work related one.

So, little bit of background. We run a small, independent family business, employing 10 people (including ourselves) across 2 sites.Everybody earns the same, has the same entitlement to annual leave etc. There's no hierarchy, other than obviously us as owners (although we too take the same wage, do the same job etc.)

Anyway, we have a general rule/policy that no more than 2 members of staff can be on annual leave at any time, due to the lack over cover as we're such a small business. This generally works out well, and on the odd occasion that we've had to decline a leave request for this reason, it's been accepted with good grace. If something was to come up as an emergency, we'd do all we could to be flexible of course, as it's far better for us to have a happy team than not.

One member of staff mentioned a while ago that they wanted some time off for a family wedding, but didn't give any dates - we asked them to let us know the dates ASAP so we could get them in the diary. Over 2 months passed before we were given the dates (4 working days) and unfortunately during that time 2 other members of staff had booked 2 of the days off, so we had to explain that we could honour the midweek dates but the weekend wasn't available. So far as we were aware, this was accepted.

Fast forward to 2 weeks ago, and on their last day before the agreed period of leave, employee asks "You have sorted cover for next week, haven't you? I'll be back a week on Tuesday."

Erm, no, we hadn't of course. We'd sorted cover for the agreed weekdays, but explained yet again that unfortunately the Saturday we couldn't cover so he would be required to work. As the Sunday was also his normal working day, and he hadn't asked for this, we'd had no prior notice to either approve or decline this, nor to look at arranging cover.

We left it that he was expected back in work on the Saturday, and wished him a good holiday. Of course, when the Saturday came around, he didn't turn up - leaving us well and truly in the brown sticky stuff. Nor did he come in on the Sunday. He wasn't contactable, we tried.

On the Monday (not a day he is scheduled to work) he contacted us by text message asking "Is everything ok?", and we responded to the effect that he had left us in an incredibly difficult position, costing us lots of money and damage to our reputation as we'd been able to fulfil our obligations over the weekend due to him not turning up. He was warned that if he did that again, he would be dismissed, however we're reasonable people (probably too reasonable) so we were prepared to give him a chance, and would say no more about it.

He well and truly threw his toys out of the pram at being warned, and told us he would not be returning to work after we had "threatened" him. This left us in an ever worse position, as he was due to work on the Tuesday and again we had commitments we had to cancel due to him quitting.

We've managed to find somebody else to fill the role now, although will have to invest in training them, and it will have an impact on the business for a while as we get them up to speed.

The (former) employee has now contacted us again today, basically asking for his job back, although no sign of any apology, just "I had things on my mind". Well don't we all! Some of us now have the added worry of repairing our damaged business, and making sure we can still pay the rest of the staff this week.

Are we being unreasonable in any way? I certainly don't think so, but he clearly does.

OP posts:
bubblesforlife · 31/07/2019 23:08

Did your conversation about the reputational damage and lost of earnings happen over text?
Although he was being a brat, the message (you may have?) sent him would give him the impression you were being somewhat threatening, regardless of who is right or wrong. Now he was childish etc. But I feel you OP could have held back that message until he came back into work.
But that’s assuming this entire convo was over text?

MilkTwoSugarsThanks · 31/07/2019 23:13

He was totally in the wrong and there's no way you should take him back, but I do think you need to take measures to make sure your business is not hit so hard by having more than two people off.

I wouldn't change the annual leave policy, but if someone's off sick at the same time you need to make sure you're not up shit creek. You could ask a person who is off to change their dates in those circumstances, but I believe you would be expected to reimburse their costs (could be £Ks if they've booked a trip abroad) if you did.

Stefoscope · 31/07/2019 23:22

He sounds like an entitled idiot, you're well rid. No doubt he'll also be expecting a glowing reference from you!

Rumours0fAHurricane · 31/07/2019 23:25

I had to check when this was posted as I've read an almost identical thread done weeks ago.

Anyone else think it's familiar? It's almost word for word

notacooldad · 31/07/2019 23:32

It’s a bit crap that you can’t have two people off at the same time, but that’s the perils of a small business
Sounds perfectly normal. All the teams I have worked at over the last 30 years have had that rule.

FossiPajuZeka · 31/07/2019 23:46

Do not take him back.

If any other employer asks for a reference, you can say completely factually that he chose to resign following an incident where he was given a disciplinary warning after having been absent without leave. Some people think you aren't allowed to give negative references - this is not true, but you must stick to cast iron provable facts.

Mothership4two · 31/07/2019 23:49

It may have not been wholly surprising that he did not turn up, but they did discuss the situation with him and told him he was expected (as he knows the company, he would understand the impact his absence would cause),. Extra cover costs money - if they had brought someone in 'just in case' and he had turned up, they would be have to pay that person for the day (weekend rates). They are running a business.

He quit, I wouldn't want to re-employ him.

merlotqueen · 31/07/2019 23:53

Employee in the wrong but so were you?
You knew he wanted the four days for a wedding so giving him the Friday and Monday was pointless when you knew he'd be away all four days, what was the point of that? "So far as we were aware' I think you know it would all go tits up. Come on, you knew so is there a back story?

SciFiRules · 01/08/2019 00:12

OK this chap hasn't acted well but is your bussiness really running on such a shoe string that being one person down cost you money, damaged your reputation and lead to broken obligations!? This strikes me either as an exaggeration or a sign that your bussiness has poor resilience and contingency plans. How do you cover illness? Also if his role is so important that his two lost days of labour were so damaging why did it only takes a week to find and train a replacement?
Luckily for me I work in quite a supportive environment, the upside of this is that generally people go the extra mile to support the organisation in return. I can understand your annoyance at the inconvenience but van you really not cover more than two people on leave at a time for short periods?

VenusTiger · 01/08/2019 00:15

Not turning up for work for 3 consecutive days is called job abandonment and constitutes a resignation.

TheNightof1000Fans · 01/08/2019 00:16

It all depends on whether or not he’s been employed for more than two years.

SciFiRules · 01/08/2019 00:16

When it comes to references don't be spiteful though. If he has worked well for a long period and had a sudden outburst it's somewhat unfair to focus solely on this.

littledrummergirl · 01/08/2019 00:36

Take legal advice if he has been with you for more than two years. He could have a case for employment tribunal.

loudnoises1 · 01/08/2019 00:49

As a small business owner I really do sympathise but it sounds like you might need to tighten your processes a bit around booking and accepting/rejecting holidays so that it's crystal clear to everyone.

RaggeddeeAnn · 01/08/2019 01:36

I think it’s partially your own fault that you can only function at 80-100% manning. Two days short 1 extra person should not have caused so much damage.
You should have better contingency & staffing plans for lower levels of manning due to sickness, family emergency and to allow greater flexibility for leave. A family wedding is not like leave to see a football game!
I’d convert two positions to four part time positions so that when full timers go on leave, the part timers can work extra shifts.

Whatever you do with the employee- don’t do anything vindictive...lots of posters on here suggesting retaliation which would harm you in the long run as a disgruntled former employee can damage a firms reputation quite easily.

RaggeddeeAnn · 01/08/2019 01:52

“Extra cover costs money - if they had brought someone in 'just in case' and he had turned up, they would be have to pay that person for the day (weekend rates). They are running a business.”

Extra cover is only one option of many to handle a known future absence. You can reschedule, you can offer overtime, you can adjust weekly work schedules so 1 extra person is off for the 2 days before the 3 go on leave and then working while the 3 are gone. So instead of
A week going 10, 10,10,10,9,7,7,10 you have 10,10,10,9,8,8,10.

Brain06626 · 01/08/2019 01:55

This reply has been deleted

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dustarr73 · 01/08/2019 07:26

@ithinkiammelting because it was obvious he wasnt going to come in.

ithinkiammelting · 01/08/2019 14:57

because it was obvious he wasnt going to come in
He had been told he couldn't have the time off. The OP didn't know he was going to go awol and a small business can't afford to arrange cover for someone who is supposed to be at work anyway just in case they don't turn up...

MumUndone · 01/08/2019 15:01

He has resigned. Do not take him back, he has shown his true colours.

Butters83 · 01/08/2019 15:16

I don't know if theres' a contract in place, but most employers state that if you go absent without informing the employer then its gross misconduct.

He clearly knew full well what he was doing by pleading ignorance - absolute chancer. do not take him back!

MinisterforCheekyFuckery · 01/08/2019 15:25

Yanbu in not taking him back, but yabu blaming him for loss of business as its your responsibility not the employees to make sure you have extra cover in place in case someone is sick, bereaved, some other emergency or needs to be replaced.

I agree with this actually. He's a CF, no doubt about it and I wouldn't have him back. But if one person not being in work unexpectedly means you suffer damage to your reputation and loss of earnings because you can't meet obligations to clients then that's a really risky position to be in.

ginnybag · 01/08/2019 15:38

Some questions, which no-one can help you properly without the answers to - there's some very quick answers been given, but unfortunately, HR law doesn't work so simply.

  1. (And most importantly) how long has this man worked for your firm?
  1. Does he have any health conditions or disabilities?
  1. Does he have a current disciplinary record? If so, what for and from how long ago?
  1. What records of the booking, booking refusal, failure to turn up and attempted contact etc have you got?
Toooldtocareanymore · 01/08/2019 15:45

I don't think you did anything wrong, you issues him with a written warning when he didn't show up for work , (of course his mistake was not to have simply rung in sick on the Saturday morning claiming he got food poisoning at wedding or something, and nothing you could do, we have had this situation at work where we have a similar policy regarding who can take leave for certain overlapping positions) instead when he clearly knew he was due in he chose to just not show. ( his second mistake didn't claim he didn't know- had you refused in writing? ) He then resigned, nothing you could do about this, he chose to react the way he did and he's gone a week- presumable had a holiday and rethought his position, ( possibly thinking he'll come back to you while looking elsewhere) and honestly why would you want this person back he's unreliable, dishonest and basically childish. It sets a bad precedent for other employees. Yes you have to train someone else up and yes you need to have better provision to cover emergencies, but that's nothing to do with him, be thankful he wasn't just a bit smarter to cover his ass and you aren't stuck with an unreliable employee.

Andysbestadventure · 01/08/2019 15:51

Tell him to run and jump.