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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Employee taking the proverbial...and leaving us up the creek!

97 replies

Tedp · 31/07/2019 21:54

Sorry folks, it's a work related one.

So, little bit of background. We run a small, independent family business, employing 10 people (including ourselves) across 2 sites.Everybody earns the same, has the same entitlement to annual leave etc. There's no hierarchy, other than obviously us as owners (although we too take the same wage, do the same job etc.)

Anyway, we have a general rule/policy that no more than 2 members of staff can be on annual leave at any time, due to the lack over cover as we're such a small business. This generally works out well, and on the odd occasion that we've had to decline a leave request for this reason, it's been accepted with good grace. If something was to come up as an emergency, we'd do all we could to be flexible of course, as it's far better for us to have a happy team than not.

One member of staff mentioned a while ago that they wanted some time off for a family wedding, but didn't give any dates - we asked them to let us know the dates ASAP so we could get them in the diary. Over 2 months passed before we were given the dates (4 working days) and unfortunately during that time 2 other members of staff had booked 2 of the days off, so we had to explain that we could honour the midweek dates but the weekend wasn't available. So far as we were aware, this was accepted.

Fast forward to 2 weeks ago, and on their last day before the agreed period of leave, employee asks "You have sorted cover for next week, haven't you? I'll be back a week on Tuesday."

Erm, no, we hadn't of course. We'd sorted cover for the agreed weekdays, but explained yet again that unfortunately the Saturday we couldn't cover so he would be required to work. As the Sunday was also his normal working day, and he hadn't asked for this, we'd had no prior notice to either approve or decline this, nor to look at arranging cover.

We left it that he was expected back in work on the Saturday, and wished him a good holiday. Of course, when the Saturday came around, he didn't turn up - leaving us well and truly in the brown sticky stuff. Nor did he come in on the Sunday. He wasn't contactable, we tried.

On the Monday (not a day he is scheduled to work) he contacted us by text message asking "Is everything ok?", and we responded to the effect that he had left us in an incredibly difficult position, costing us lots of money and damage to our reputation as we'd been able to fulfil our obligations over the weekend due to him not turning up. He was warned that if he did that again, he would be dismissed, however we're reasonable people (probably too reasonable) so we were prepared to give him a chance, and would say no more about it.

He well and truly threw his toys out of the pram at being warned, and told us he would not be returning to work after we had "threatened" him. This left us in an ever worse position, as he was due to work on the Tuesday and again we had commitments we had to cancel due to him quitting.

We've managed to find somebody else to fill the role now, although will have to invest in training them, and it will have an impact on the business for a while as we get them up to speed.

The (former) employee has now contacted us again today, basically asking for his job back, although no sign of any apology, just "I had things on my mind". Well don't we all! Some of us now have the added worry of repairing our damaged business, and making sure we can still pay the rest of the staff this week.

Are we being unreasonable in any way? I certainly don't think so, but he clearly does.

OP posts:
Igmum · 31/07/2019 22:27

Have a word with ACAS to make sure you follow due process but absolutely steer clear of this guy. Definitely don't take him back.

dustarr73 · 31/07/2019 22:27

Im surprised you thought her was turning up for his shift.Especially as he was at a wedding.You should have got some cover.

But he resigned,so its his loss.Plenty of days off for him now.

stucknoue · 31/07/2019 22:28

Unless you have his quitting in writing it could be your word against his. Whilst he could receive a formal warning for his unauthorised annual leave you need to go through legal steps to fire

TheHandsOfNeilBuchanan · 31/07/2019 22:30

I don't see how you wouldn't have grounds to refuse him, surely even if you don't accept the resignation as legitimate, not showing up for more than one shift even after he was back from his holiday, is gross misconduct.

KarmaStar · 31/07/2019 22:31

He is a c.f.extraordinaire OP and I would definitely not take him back.
You appear to be a lovely genuine person and,sadly,he is well aware of this and is changing his arm.
Plus you've made a commitment to a new,probably delighted employee,and you're string an example to other staff.
Well done for running a small business in this appalling economic climateFlowers

BoomBoomsCousin · 31/07/2019 22:32

From a moral perspective, no YANBU. But your description of events sounds like you've done this in a very ad hoc manner and you would be wise to make sure you have followed the law properly and documented everything properly. You can't just fire someone because they haven't turned up to work you need to follow an appropriate process.

HeadintheiClouds · 31/07/2019 22:35

He hasn’t been fired, he quit.

AnneElliott · 31/07/2019 22:37

How long has he worked with you op? If Less than 2 years I believe you can dismiss with no reason. But if he's worked there longer then I would seek advice.

HeadintheiClouds · 31/07/2019 22:39

It doesn’t matter if he’s worked there long enough to qualify for a gold watch - he QUIT.

CupoTeap · 31/07/2019 22:44

Haha he's got a nerve, do not have him back. Think about what this would say to your other staff.

Candymay · 31/07/2019 22:45

Make sure you do this legally. He sounds like a terrible employee and you sound a delight! But just make sure you cover yourself and either accept his resignation if there is any record of this or fire him because of his gross misconduct. Don’t leave yourself open to further problems from him.

FrancisCrawford · 31/07/2019 22:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

slashlover · 31/07/2019 22:47

So he quit over a week ago? Tell him the position has been filled.

You also have to think that if you allow him back then that could allow other staff to argue that you allowed him back after going AWOL then quitting so they should be able to do the same.

ThreeFish · 31/07/2019 22:48

I think you have followed proper process. You had a policy for leave which he did not follow, you gave him a warning and did not ask him to leave giving him the required second chance, he resigned without giving you notice. YANBU.

ithinkiammelting · 31/07/2019 22:49

dustarr73 The employee had been told he couldn't have the time off because other people had booked it already, and he was supposed to be at work. Instead, he skived off and went to the wedding.

Why would the employer have arranged cover? He should have been at work.

indianbackground · 31/07/2019 22:50

I agree that you may want to talk to ACAS.

Have you got formal notes of the conversations, dates and times? I would put something in writing confirming that he resigned and circumstances and date that took effect, final pay, you will send P45 and any personal things he might have.

Separately write that you do not have any vacancies.

HeadintheiClouds · 31/07/2019 22:51

I don’t imagine he’d be asking for his job back if he was under any illusion that it was still his...

BlokeHereInPeace · 31/07/2019 22:52

Your other employees will see that you won't stand for being pissed around, which is good. Well done. You could have fired him before he quit, but it doesn't sound like he'll be back.

MrsKittyFane1 · 31/07/2019 22:52

Get everything sent out to him - final salary/P45 and don't engage in conversation until you have independent advice.

GileadWivesAreFashionIcons · 31/07/2019 22:54

I’d allow him to rescind his resignation then investigate him for being AWOL and dismiss him. Which is vindictive and not at all helpful, sorry OP Blush

In all seriousness though, I don’t think you should let him back, you couldn’t ever fully trust him again, and if you say you’re trying to repair reputation from the issues he caused by not coming in this would be risky.

Sunshine1239 · 31/07/2019 22:55

I don’t see any issue process wise

If I didn’t turn up I’d be sacked for gross misconduct end of?!

turnaroundbrighteyes · 31/07/2019 22:59

Yanbu in not taking him back, but yabu blaming him for loss of business as its your responsibility not the employees to make sure you have extra cover in place in case someone is sick, bereaved, some other emergency or needs to be replaced.

In this case I think he called it in advance that he'd be turned down and felt between a rock and a hard place so messed you about until the last minute hoping he could claim misunderstanding and all would be forgiven.

Personally for a (close) family wedding I'd have waived the 2 person rule due to exceptional circumstances (and because you should have contingency in place in case someone's ill).

HouseOfGoldandBones · 31/07/2019 23:02

He resigned. It doesn't matter whether it was in the form of a letter, email, verbally.

If, by his not working his notice, you have suffered financial loss, as a direct result of this, you are also entitled to have him reimburse you for this.

If it were me, I would send him a letter, confirming his resignation, confirming that he did not work his notice period & that you will be seeking legal advice wrt the loss you have experienced due to his actions.

ConfCall · 31/07/2019 23:04

He’s not being unreasonable in asking if the role is still open, and you’re not being unreasonable in saying no.

Call ACAS. Check the position re paying notice. I wouldn’t pay more than he’s legally entitled to.

I think you should look at emergency/contingency planning too. None of this was your fault but as a pp said, stuff happens. What if he’d been unwell instead of bunking off?

Yabbers · 31/07/2019 23:04

Unless you have his quitting in writing it could be your word against his. Whilst he could receive a formal warning for his unauthorised annual leave you need to go through legal steps to fire

I agree, did he formally resign and did you formally accept? I would have thought there would need to be a process in place for resigning. I’d check with a lawyer on that one.

I think there were two mistakes made. You were naive to think he would show up given he was going to be away for 4 days for a wedding. The odds were always that he wouldn’t. Engaging with him over text was a bad idea too. I would have ignored the text and waited til he came in on Tuesday to talk to him.

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