To think having £211/week each after housing costs isn't poverty?

[PianoThirty]

It is according to the Social Metrics Commission.

They say the poverty line is £203/week for a single parent with one child, £422/week for a couple with two children. All figures are after** housing costs and childcare costs (if applicable).

I'd be over the moon if we had £422/week to spend, and I don't think we're anywhere near poor.

I don't give a shiny one what state labour left the country in.

Current homelessness...
What have Tories done?
Current poverty....
What have tories done?
Current disabled people suicides after assessments...
What have Tories done?

Let's look closely at Universal Credit.
I won't give the answers...I'll let any Tory supporters provide them.
How much was it supposed to cost? How much has it cost? How many deaths have been linked to it? Are children and women better off now or worse off? Who runs UC right now Tory or labour? How much money has Teresa Mays husband made since she took over as PM?

Answers on a postcard to that family living in a hostel and starving half to death.

They always leave a note saying that

Can you link to a source for that? Because I've just read a Guardian article written in 2015 by the guy who very much regrets writing it, and he said nothing about any such tradition. In fact he says the note and its wording were his idea.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/may/09/liam-byrne-apology-letter-there-is-no-money-labour-general-election

Well, that's embarrassing. Having now read rather than skimmed the article I linked to, it does in fact confirm it's a standing joke.

"whatever anyone says to you you'll clearly argue opposite." No i'll argue the opposite if my own knowledge and experience contradicts what's been said - that's how debate works.

"It was handled poorly here by labour" only according to tory politicians and supporters. I don't accept what ANY politician says about the economy blindly, I read and listen to what economists and other financial experts say - including direct conversations I've had with people in the field.

"unemployment sky-high." Tories have MASSIVELY changed the parameters on what "counts" as in paid employment so we've now ended up with their definition being anyone who works in paid employment for at least ONE HOUR per FORTNIGHT! How many people do you know that

A could live on £8.21 a fortnight!
B would reasonably class that as "employed"

"It could have been far better handled by a party with a stable spending and economic plan"
Which the tories haven't implemented!

"to pay back huge borrowing and interest" not only have they NOT done this they INCREASED our borrowing massively!

"You need to do your research from a less biased source." I read and listen to a wide variety of sources, including those supportive of and defending the actions of the tories. "Know thine enemy" and all.

"I shall burden you no longer because it's shameful for me and graphista says so!" That's just Fucking insulting because that is BLATANTLY NOT what I said! I said that TORIES and their supporters view you, me and all benefits recipients (which includes all those on tax credits and child benefit) as "scroungers" etc

Disagree with me, debate with me but DO NOT LIE about WHAT I SAID!!!

Alsohuman - thank you! We (mners) don't always agree, who does? But I won't stand for what I said being LIED about.

Steve - I "get" most people who are currently LUCKY enough to be relatively healthy and able to work and earn, possibly also 2 incomes, no kids yet (if they plan to have them) just plain don't have the experience. But it is tiresome when the people in these lucky positions come into threads like this and try to tell those of us who AREN'T as lucky that

We deserve to struggle
That we should be unendingly and pathetically grateful for what we do get
That they would manage perfectly fine in the same circumstances (you really DON'T know how you'll cope till you're in the situation)

And it downright pisses me off when they try and make out that it's easy, that benefits are "generous" etc.

Helena I do hope dh is doing better for now, I know you've had a lot on your plate recently (as if you don't normally!).

Steve - my conditions are "invisible" -mh, spinal disability due to the car accident, I'm not (yet) needing to use mobility aids permanently, endo are main ones - so I'm used to people who know I'm not working but don't know me well enough to know (and even some who DO know and should know better) why, making stupid, insulting comments.

I hate my meters getting below £10 because not having hot water would extremely distress me!

I check my bank balance before I spend on ANYTHING out of the ordinary and budget is on a spreadsheet.

My stomach jumps if the letterbox goes AT ALL, if it's mail from dwp it's a gut wrenching, stomach churning fear, takes me about an hour to work up the courage to open the damn things!

Not had a holiday of any kind since I stopped working, not even weekend away to stay with family/friends.

Nights out - (when I'm up to it) has to be carefully budgeted for and organised, I can't do "rounds" or have a meal out AND go to pub after. Maybe 2/3 times a year? I "save" them for milestone birthdays etc. I usually stick to free/very cheap forms of socialising like going to friends houses, going short walks etc. Luckily we have a local independent cinema which is very cheap and sometimes has offers on.

"but money is still stretched due to medical requirements, specialist diets, medical stuff we have to buy, extra fuel for appointments" yea, not as much as for you and your do, but I have my prescription meds which as I'm in Scotland (and I know as unemployed would apply now in England too, but even when I was working money was tight) are free, but I still need to buy certain things to deal with side effects, minor ailments etc (I must have shares in rennie by now!)

As dd is working now she can cover her own "out of pocket" medical stuff but that is a pretty recent change, previously I also had to cover her paracetamol (to boost prescribed painkillers), stuff to help with indigestion/nausea, tubigrips/bandages, aloe gel, germolene, steristrips (her skin "splits" easily, plus she is "accident prone" because of her disability), eye drops, ear drops, a particular not cheap mouth wash as her condition causes dental issues...

Yes to transport costs for appointments too! Our local hospital doesn't have a paediatrics dept for ANYTHING so all dds appointments were at the next nearest hospital for this, 90 mins away by car BUT we didn't have a car (on my old meds I couldn't drive anyway, but again cost is also a factor) in addition the buses to this hospital are minimal from the nearest town - to get there by public transport is a train and 2 buses and costs about £15 per person, but If I or dd were also injured/mobility wasn't good at AT BEST we could struggle onto the train but get a taxi that end to hospital making the total cost around £40! At one point dd had 2 appointments a month it made things very tight.

Local hospital also doesn't have a gynae dept so my gynae appointments are there too. That's been great fun when I have been mid heavy period! Not even all my spinal appointments are at my local hospital.

"I also learned that you don't have to use their form, you can use a typed document" now see even THAT is news to me I didn't know that.

I got royally screwed the first time I tried to claim, had an appointment at Drs that fell the same day I got the letter telling me I'd been denied. Thankfully that dr was switched on and signposted me to a local health charity who were VERY experienced (from having been through all this shit either themselves or for loved ones - all volunteers) and they got me on track and sorted. I dread to think what would have happened to dd and I if we hadn't had the good fortune of things happening as they did, in terms of the support we had from them - but I WAS shocked when telling them all that had happened that they WEREN'T surprised at the (often) complete and utter bullshit spouted by dwp workers (awaits flaming from dwp workers - I know it's not ALL of you - but it DOES happen a hell of a lot! I don't believe a word they say any more without verifying elsewhere)

Even with all my experience AND a Fucking English degree! As I say I won't do the forms myself - the rules and forms are CONSTANTLY changing and I don't have the confidence to do so.

I'm still currently on DLA, DREADING the change to pip and I've been advised by welfare rights advisor, local charity advisor and cpn (when I still HAD one) to resist triggering the change for as long as possible.

"Forever trotted out here, 'just move' 'just get a job'" yep - usually spouted by posters who've NEVER BEEN in our position!

"In Scotland water costs are not included in council tax. They are added to and collected with the council tax." Point is it's still publicly owned/administrated and generally much cheaper here.

Twinnywinny - without wishing to cause offence you clearly don't "get it" - you've misunderstood the initial premise for starters - the money in the op is what STILL has to be used for "household costs and food and fuel" etc etc it's NOT what's leftover for these families AFTER they've covered all their essentials. Your £300 is frankly spending money and very very many families DON'T have any or very little! That's £69 a week you've got JUST for whatever luxuries/larger costs you may have. I just about "break even" every month, a lot of families aren't even managing that and are either getting into more debt each month JUST trying to cover BASIC ESSENTIALS (rent, utilities, food, transport, Internet) or are going without things like food or both! Certainly when I was a Single mum when child maintenance was still deducted from benefits (even if ex hadn't paid or not paid full amount) there were many times I had to go without food, replacing essential clothes, having the heating on if dd wasn't home... You REALLY don't "really struggle" yea yea ill get the "it's not a race to the bottom" comments but I do think it's important people understand just HOW bad/much worse things are for some families - and I'm well aware that AT THE MOMENT we are doing better than a lot of people too.

I'm on several Facebook groups for benefits claimants where members support each other, most DAYS There's posts "4 of us, just got UC payment for this month - please tell me how to cover our essential costs when we're only getting £35 a week after rent paid" and similar.

You can only use food banks so many times and under certain parameters.

THIS is what's happening in a wealthy, developed country where there is MORE than enough money/food to go around but it's being denied to those in need and hoarded by the wealthy greedy!

Justanotherposter00 - thank you, you flatter me.

"we live in constant fear, fear of the abuse some of us get, fear of having a good day and somebody reports you, fear of either freezing or starving to death in winter, we have no choice in this" hear hear! Very coherent and eloquent as far as I'm concerned!

I've had people report/threaten to report me "cos you're not really disabled are you?" "If you were you wouldn't be able to do X/y/z" "you don't look disabled" etc These are NOT medical professionals who have ANY Understanding or knowledge of my medical history or status! just nasty judgmental arseholes

The fact that these tories own the press and print what they want people to read and believe is a very important point which many people forget. very important point!

"How many deaths have been linked to it?" Uk coroners (iirc via a union? Or professional body? Some kind of organisation they're a part of) put in an FOI request I think 2-3 years ago ASKING for the official stats on this - as far as I know they're still waiting on an answer.

Has someone misquoted the figures? The article says

In cash terms this means a couple with two children would have an income of less than £211 a week after housing costs, and a single parent with one child would be on less than £101.50 a week.

YY Graphista.

"That we should be unendingly and pathetically grateful for what we do get"

You see this on the social housing threads all the time.

OP’s misinterpreted the figures. The numbers she quotes include housing costs.

@Graphista

I don't recall hearing about that FOI.. I'll have a Google about and see.

It's interesting if you Google deaths relates to Universal Credit. The figure is quite high. Personally I think 1 is too many.

I would highlight the case of Stephen Smith. I'd recommend any Tory supporter read it. Then tell me the Tories are caring and considerate and trying to do what's best.

Stephen Smith
A man with multiple debilitating illnesses who was denied benefits and deemed fit to work, sparking a national outcry over the government’s welfare system, has died.

Stephen Smith, 64, who had chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, osteoarthritis and an enlarged prostate that left him in chronic pain, made headline news earlier this year. Shocking pictures showed him emaciated in hospital with pneumonia as his weight dropped to six stone, leaving him barely able to walk.

He failed a Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) work capability assessment in 2017, which meant that his employment support allowance (ESA) payments were stopped. Instead, he was told to sign on to receive a £67 a week jobseeker’s allowance, visit the jobcentre once a week and prove that he was looking for work.

He eventually died....
Thanks Tory Heroes...

211 per week after housing costs would be great. Personally have one child and get 511 per month alongside housing element 440 per month.
Notice this is not enough to rent. Downsizing will not help as the credit goes down accordingly.
Add into that that no one leases to people on universal credit and that there is no longer social housing. Or that countless thousands of people having hard luck lost their homes when benefits were cut during the switchover.

I feed my child rice and frozen veg.

You voted for this.

Yes this is poverty.