To ask for help with possible qualification fraud?

[Shambu]

I've discovered a relation of a close family member is promoting himself to his clients as having an Hons degree he does not have.

I've known him for 20 years, and his qualification was a much lower status one which he didn't finish.

It is featured on his email on all communication with clients.

How would I find out? I contacted the institution to find out if they offered that course at the time, but I cannot make a request for specific information without his being informed.

Seriously though is he actually purporting to have a degree from x university

Yes. He doesn't state the university just the qualification.

Thanks Beer and thanks to all the posters who have commented constructively and thanks for the PMs. This thread has actually been really helpful.

I understand it's very annoying when posters won't divulge details, I've had the same frustration. But his career is quite niche and the specifics would be hugely outing. I'm well aware of the DM circling.

OP: Someone upthread has asked:

Is the qualification required by law to do what he is doing?

In my mind, this is not relevant. Remember the MPs’ expenses scandal? Many of those expenses were allowed to be claimed under the rules, but remember how outraged we were Because we all knew it wasn’t right.

Lying about qualifications could mean two things:

1. He is unqualified to do the job. To the people arguing that they don’t know many jobs where a degree is a direct requirement: this is a flawed argument. For many jobs, can’t go on to do professional training without the degree. Without the professional training, you wouldn’t be able to get the job. Sometimes without the degree, you wouldn’t have got the job: not because it is legally required but because is considered better you have it than not.

I am a lawyer and I could not have even started my training contract, never mind qualified, with the firm at which I trained without my degree. And, because they’re not eejits, they made me bring in my original degree certificate on my first day.

1. (And perhaps more important) Lying about qualifications goes to a person’a character. Very often in professional roles, people’s honesty and integrity is important. For example, the Senior Managers regime in financial services in the U.K., which often involves the regulators interviewing people who apply to hold senior positions in financial institutions, places huge store my integrity, honesty and conduct. People who are in a position of trust (and that includes people who advise clients who trust their knowledge, experience and qualifications) should not be liars.

So, I would stand up and be counted, OP. Write anonymously to his employer and tell them that he does not have the degree he is claiming to have via the signature on the bottom of every one of his professional emails.

Well then you aren't sure if he got a degree or not, you just have suspicions?! How are you so sure he hasn't done any professional training?

Online searches depend.on which university it was and the year of graduation; for some you can search for a fee, maybe £15 or so. I doubt most would go back 20 years though, I think they're mostly building the databases from a point in time. Anyway, google "university of X" "verification of awards" and you'll see for the relevant university.

Or, just email his HR with a tip-off as I've consistently been advising you and they'll check.

So on email sig he puts “bsc/ba Hons in x subject”

Dh just puts “bsc Hons name of university”

If you are worried about it then I agree write anonymously to his employer and let them know you know he hasn’t got x degree and that you feel that this could seriously impact the advice (of whatever kind he gives) to clients. Obviously it’s less dangerous to public if he isn’t a medic etc. But still....

Well then you aren't sure if he got a degree or not, you just have suspicions?!

As I said his qualification was a much lower status one which he didn't finish.

The reason I want to know for sure what he actually studied is that I want to be able to say to my sister he claims he has x but he actually has only y. I just need my facts straight, otherwise she may try to bluff her way out of it.

I have a friend who left school and went to work at a bank. He has worked his way up over the years and is in a very senior position. It’s an interesting topic of conversation for him that he won’t even interview potential hires unless they have a Masters as is company policy for most important roles.....however he only has O levels himself
But....his employers know and he doesn’t lie about it on emails!

So on email sig he puts “bsc/ba Hons in x subject”

Yes. Which is what concerns me as it gives a false impression to his clients that he is educated in this area - which is one of the areas he's giving advice on.

It's true that many things can be learned on the job. But not necessarily everything.

If protecting you sister is the aim, then can I suggest you don’t corner and confront her so she can’t “bluff her way out of it”?

She is married to a horrible man and is in denial. He is risking the family’s financial stability if hie lies are discovered. Not good. But going in all guns blazing won’t help. Just tell her you know and you will be there to support her if necessary.

But....his employers know and he doesn’t lie about it on emails!

Exactly. A friend of mine started at a management consultancy straight from school and worked his way up to a very senior role. Some people do that, some come in at grad+ level. As long as everyone knows where they are it's all fine.

If protecting you sister is the aim, then can I suggest you don’t corner and confront her so she can’t “bluff her way out of it”?

I have no intention of cornering her or going in 'guns blazing'. My intention is to have a quiet conversation about it. Be gentle but firm and clear. That she does need to take this seriously.

OP I think you’re getting a really hard time here.

Would the posters saying mind your own business really be happy if they had paid a load of money for his services then found out he wasn’t actually qualified to give that advice (and judging by the 4 x sued, it’s often wrong), and that people knew that but nobody stepped in and stopped him?

But his career is quite niche and the specifics would be hugely outing. I'm well aware of the DM circling.

Surely if the DM pick this up, then you wont have to do anything ?

Outing ffs, I hate that. Especially here where you actually want him outed?

Why don’t you just admit that you hate the guy and have done with it? All this faux concern about your sister and his clients is nauseating. If his employer is happy with him that should be enough for anyone. After all they pay him and it’s their insurance that takes a hit if he gets sued.

The reason you are getting a hard time on here is because you simply don't know and refuse to indicate how important it is for his role since he has 20 years experience. (There are similar roles to most career areas that aren't so niche. )

If he is registered with a professional body them you need to report him to them. I know some professional bodies do extremely limited background checks.

If you have suspicions the degree is relevant to him being hired then mention to his HR they aren't doing background checks properly. One company I worked for only did qualification checks when they were making people redundant.

Oh and bringing in degree certificates is pointless. The employer needs to check with the institutions directly that the degree was awarded and the institution is real as certificates can be faked and so can the institution.

Especially here where you actually want him outed?

Where did I say that?

If the DM picked it up my relationship with my sister would be ruined. So I have good reason for being careful.

I agree with you Op, he is misleading clients who are probably paying more for his services based on his qualifications.

The reason you are getting a hard time on here is because you simply don't know and refuse to indicate how important it is for his role since he has 20 years experience. (There are similar roles to most career areas that aren't so niche.)

It's true I don't know exactly how important it is for his role.

I do know it's not a case of the position requiring particular kind of degree and/or training - like doctor.

I doubt he needs the specific degree that he claims to have (could be wrong about that). The problem is that he is purporting to his company and his clients to have this degree and thus a knowledge base he doesn't actually have. (Granted he can learn to some extent on the job).

I would mind my own business if I were you.
It could ruin the relationship you have with your sister,and no ones worth that.
And to be honest,most degrees aren't worth the paper there written on.
And most of the time it has nothing to do with the job there doing anyway.
If he is good at his job,fare play.
Like has been said...he is not doing medical stuff or endangering
lives.

How do you know? He could have achieved this through distance learning.

It's a bit of a weird one if it's an honours degree which is professionally qualified (a Legal Executive, Accountant etc have their own professional qualifications, albeit a BSc or BA will give additional status). E.g. a Business Degree will likely have some exemptions towards an accounting qualification, as would a Human Resources Management degree towards CIPD (the 'professionally recognised' HR qualification).

If he's employed, then the employer should have asked to see the original certificates.

It is illegal, under 'Obtaining a Pecuniary Advantage by Deception' which is a sub-set of the fraud legislation.

Your motives are looking pretty suspect now. You're playing up to the AIBU crowd with the "his clients getting bad advice" angle, yet apparently you have no intention of telling his employer. Great! Why are you happy for him to continue to be in this position of trust when you're so sure he's a liar?

You also keep stating what you "know", but you don't follow up on any suggestions for basic research you can do. Have you even looked at his LinkedIn to see what he claims? We still don't know how his degree can be so significant when apparently his career doesn't need any professional body membership. His career probably isn't as "niche" as you think, stating "insurance" for example could be any of 500 companies and thousands of broker firms; you can be helped if you give information. I suspect some of the advice given indicates you got something wrong and that's why you're being so evasive.

You say you want your sister to know he could get fired if anybody ever finds out. Why are you warning her and not both of them, just because you don't like him? Is she supposed to take that as a threat from you that you'll reveal it to his employers? This won't be the final thing that makes the scales fall from her eyes so she sees all his flaws, why do you think it's so important to her?

If your issue is really that the guy's awful to your sister then his qualification or lack of it just don't matter, trying to pin her down on one fact unrelated to her relationship is one of the worst ways possible of trying to gain her trust. People rely on their emotion when under attack, not facts, you'll make her dig in even more deeply. You should be parking this issue for later revenge and instead be trying to help her to see whatever their relationship issues are, how she can leave safely and why she'd be happier without him.

There's clearly bullshit somewhere in your tale because it just doesn't add up. I'd like to believe you're trying to do the right thing somewhere within this, so how about stating honestly what the issue is and getting advice on the best way to get to the outcome you want?

How can you be 100% sure he hasn’t completed the degree in question? If he has been with his employer that long, they may have actually financed him to gain that qualification whilst working. As others have mentioned, distance learning is another possibility.

It would be different if he is claiming that at X university in 2000 he gained Y degree, when in reality he dropped out and didn’t continue, as you’d be sure he’s lying then.

If he’s that senior, there’s a high chance that his employer/HR won’t act on the information.

By all means report him, but if I’m being honest I’m not sure if it will go much further.

The more experience people have the less anyone cares about their qualifications.

I know someone in a professional role which requires a degree. He does have a degree in the relevant subject, but it is only an ordinary degree, not an Honours one, which would normally be quite a major restriction on career prospects in the profession in question. When applying for jobs, he has never once claimed to have an Honours degree, but has never been asked to produce any proof of his academic qualifications. He's very good at his work and reached the point where he didn't have to apply for new jobs as he was headhunted, and is now generally recognised as a leader in his field. I'm sure that, if asked, virtually everyone dealing with him would assume that he does have an Honours degree, but he has never claimed that to be the case. If someone told his current employers, they wouldn't care a jot because he's so valuable to them.

I suspect something like that may be the reality in this person's case. You can have wonderful degree results and be useless at your job, and vice versa. If he's been in the job that long he has a much more valuable knowledge base than you will ever get in three years at university.

Is there anyway he could have got the degree with recognition of workplace experience and only had to do a few modules?

We know someone who did similar at dh's previous work place many years ago now. They did have a degree but not the same classification nor the second degree, not the university they claimed. No idea how they got through the interview and application getting away with it really but they did, and had previously elsewhere too. It became really obvious in the end when talking to her. Needless to say she was found out eventually and was removed from the professional board and registry etc. and obviously sacked, etc.