To think this is unfair? (Work)

[MouthFullofGum]

I hate my job. Want a new one but the area I want to go to I need training.

Thankfully I work for a large global company so was going to request shadowing/work experience etc

My manager has said I can have 1 hour every couple of weeks

I’ve worked there 3 years. I do more work than anyone (no bragging) and I thought companies were suppose to encourage growth and development

Did you have this conversation with your manager?

I can't tell if it's just on here you're belligerent, demanding, bitter and boastful, or if you do it to your manager. Because if it's the latter that's why they use given you an hour every two weeks.

It's really up to you to put what you can into it and spin that in either a positive or negative way.

You also have to remember work shadowing isn't all about you. It's also about the poor sod who has to spend their time answering your questions whilst trying to do the job. Your view seems to be they are not relevant, the pressures on the other team aren't relevant, only you and your needs.

Other people's management of their work is their issue, not yours.

You should focus on doing the work you are asked to do. Some people are very efficient, but I'd be careful suggesting you could compress your existing work down in time without any compromise on quality.

Promotion, professional development and career growth comes from the company's needs. They'll have areas they are expanding and developing and areas they aren't. They'll have particular skills that they want to upskill people for and other areas where there's no need.

At the end of the day, you're getting given time to explore alternatives areas that might help you should any internal roles come up.

You'd be daft to be bitter, whiny or complain because it isn't as much as you want. They are giving you an opportunity. It's just not what you want in its entirety.

You’re sounding like a child, and a bratty child at that. Stop stamping your feet. You clearly think you’re better than everyone else, well usually the people who think that really aren’t.

They’re offering you a reasonable amount of development time. They don’t have to pay you to spend time in another area, but they’re willing to do so.

If you want more than rather than being argumentative and claiming it’s “so unfair” then you need to make a business case for it. I’ve done something similar to what you want to do and got it by pointing out how much knowledge I would be able to bring back and share with my normal team to help improve staff performance and customer experience.

What are you doing in your own time to develop? Any courses, training, research that you can do which will show your commitment?

Unfortunately, being in a large company doesn't always bring the opportunities you thing it will. Roles are tightly guarded, much more so than in small businesses where there can be more flexibility.

Take what's on offer - even if it seems a bit shit. You never know what opportunities it might lead to.

Well doing the same thing 5 days a week for 3 years then I’d expect anyone to know the job inside and out. It’s not boasting.

People on MN just don’t like people actually “complimenting” themselves. When I’m doing no such thing.

So I’d like to know how to advance in my career when there’s no progression in my department and I’m not allowed to gain new experience in other departments?

People on MN just don’t like people actually “complimenting” themselves.
That's not true.

So I’d like to know how to advance in my career when there’s no progression in my department and I’m not allowed to gain new experience in other departments?
You ARE being given an opportunity.
You've just not got what you want so seem to be getting stroppy about it.

If you've got so much free time in your existing role, you could ask your manager if there are any additional projects you can work on because you'd love to develop X Y Z skill further. There are many things people do to develop themselves that doesn't come down to 'but I want to be paid to not do my job and spend time preventing someone else from doing theirs, It's not fair'.

Honestly, you sound infuriating selfish and that's not a positive trait to have moving up in any organisation.

People on MN just don’t like people actually “complimenting” themselves

This isn't true, it's frowned upon when people say how superior they are to others. That's the issue.

So I’d like to know how to advance in my career when there’s no progression in my department and I’m not allowed to gain new experience in other departments?

But they have given you this. And they probably shouldn't given your posts here if they are similar to your work attitude.

Any one worth their salt would say, ok, I've one hour shadowing every two weeks. I will spend a further hour planning that, what I need to take from it, what I need to learn. I will also spend another three hours, looking at the systems and learning, so that I can ask questions during that hour and self teach. I will then spend another three hours, revising and practicing what I learned. And coming up with questions for the next hour,

And then I willl take another three hours, reviewing the job descriptions, activities, goals, targets etc and understand what I need to learn. And once a week I will invite someone for coffee or lunch from that team.

And then that one hour is usefully deployed. You maximise it. You do self learn. So that one hour becomes twelve. In your own time, working late. And then you say and once a month I shall update my manager on what I've learned and what I am going to learn. I will show willing, self responsibility, a willingness to learn, to self motivate, without over burdening the other department.

Not stamp their feet like a little kid and demand they can take the time of the other team because they are just so good and so much better than their colleagues.

All the OP is saying is that she is doing her work quicker than some of the others which gives her free time. Instead of doing the other people's work (which isn't going to incentivise them to speed up) she wants to spend a bit of time training.

OP, as long as the job you're training for is in the same company, I think that's reasonable. Have you taken it to HR?

@LolaSmiles if other people's poor management of their work load means you have to pick up the slack it's 100% your business.

HollowTalk
They've given her the time training.
I'm sure if her manager knew just how much free time she has floating around they could deploy her more effectively in her current role and give tasks that develop new skills that may be useful for promotion or sideways moves to other areas.

But I'm guessing the OP hasn't told her manager that she has hours of free time every week so she does her job, chips in with other people doing theirs and then sits back taking this as confirmation that she is so much better than everyone else and is therefore more deserving of her free time to be spent doing what she wants.

If a manager came round tomorrow and said "OP there's a project this team needs to work on and we'd like you to take the lead", would the OP take the opportunity, or would she be on here complaining that she's being given more work to do and it's so unfair? Would she see that it's upskilling herself for when promotions arise, or have a whine because she wants to spend her free time sitting next to someone else doing their job, talking to them, asking questions and generally having an easy time for her whilst hindering their ability to get their job done?

Ohbehave1
Does the OP have to pick up the slack? Has she told her manager that she has hours every week free?

I'm very wary of people who claim they work so so much harder and are better than everyone else. Usually that's not the case.

You take the time offered. You use that to go to Other depts so they know you and think well of you. You learn what you can. You apply for roles in that dept. That dept may well be happy to train in the role.

You are getting a bit of a hard time on here.

I don’t think yabu but I’d take a different approach.

I’d start by finding the appropriate person(s) in the new department who you’d be shadowing and I’d get their/ their bosses input on how much time is needed to get meaningful training.
I’d also speak to HR to get their view
In my experience they love “liquid talent” not having high churn but be neutral! you are so happy for the opportunity, you want to make sure it’s as beneficial as possible for you and the company blah blah blah...

Then once they all say 1 hour a month isn’t enough the work is done for you... and it’s easy to revisit the conversation with your manager.

I think it’s pretty stingy - an hour a week would have been more reasonable and given you a more consistent understanding.

PP’s are just being arseholes because for some reason, any hint of a poster thinking they ought to be entitled to something causes the MN claws to come out, and a lot of posters relish the opportunity to put someone ‘back in their place’.

You’ve given 3 years of good service. A good company should want to invest in you. It’s very short sighted that they aren’t committing to doing so.

I think it would be worth considering a job move, but in the meantime use the time they have allowed to ask questions and show how keen you are. It could still lead to more opportunities.

Companies should invest in training and development of employees but the OP is trying to train outside of her “trade” and is seemingly bitter about the limited offer.

Professional development within your role or chosen trade is great and should be encouraged with time to do so withinyour paid hours. But if you’re in finance why should you be paid to jump ship to project management? Ie a job you don’t have qualifications or skills in but have an interest?

I personally would offer staff time to shadow other roles but they’d have to have proven a plan to get the necessary skills / qualifications and show me realistic goals to applying for the different role. And if it negatively affected the department output then I would expect them to make up time.

It’s probably only different with a role like secretary where in some businesses it has a limit, development/promotion would be out of that role. Again I’d expect a plan before demanding time to shadow another job, and I’d expect them to have done research about the role.

I think OP's getting a hard time because many of us have experience of colleagues who self-report doing "more work than anyone" and it just isn't something that hardworking, productive, and collaborative people say. Women should absolutely be aware of their own career worth and promote and develop themselves in the way that men do, but " I hate my job...I do more work than anyone" is not how to go about it.

Could you reduce your working hours, say to 4.5 days a week and spend that half day shadowing or doing work experience (in your company or elsewhere)?
I dont know if it works that way but if you have your job so much it might be worth the drop in income for a while to achieve what you want.

It sounds like you're in a fairly entry-level job if it's so easy. Unfortunately this means your employer probably isn't that bothered about keeping you happy because you could be easily replaced.

PP’s are just being arseholes because for some reason, any hint of a poster thinking they ought to be entitled to something causes the MN claws to come out, and a lot of posters relish the opportunity to put someone ‘back in their place’.
This is just a longer version of the usual claim that anyone who disagrees with an OP must be jealous.

The OP has also come back to inform us all that MN just hates anyone who says anything good about themselves too.

I can't help but feel it must be exhausting having such a high view of myself to conclude everyone must be jealous of my brilliance.

The OP has asked for an opportunity. They've been given it. What people are saying is it's stroppy and childish to take the approach of 'but that's not what I want and I'm so much better than everyone else and can't possibly develops without having extended periods of time not doing my job'.

Having people shadow you is useful for them, but additional work for those being shadowed as tasks they could get done take longer due to stopping to talk, answer questions etc. It's useful to do, but it does impact on others.

The OP seems to have this idea that she can't progress unless she's given what she wants. There are many ways to progress without having large periods of time shadowing.

• talking to existing manager about the free time and asking if they can deploy you on new challenges so you can develop new skills
• being willing to take a lead on a new project or initiative in your current role or department
• wider reading or independent training on specific skills for a related area
• asking for training days or to be considered as part of any industry rated qualifications
• Taking a lead on new staff induction in the department or area
• Accompanying your manager to meetings one step higher as a shadowing opportunity that also benefits the current team
• seek out a coach or mentor in your industry who can help advise and develop you

These are all options, especially given how the OP has all this free time and can easily finish their work to the same standard with hours to spare.

The poor me approach doesn't send the message of someone who is ready to step up. That's not being jealous. It's not putting someone in their place. It's pointing out there are many ways to get where you want to without complaining when someone gives you an opportunity.

Well your first mistake is getting into the habit of doing other people's work for them

Think about it.

Imagine you're a manager. You have a possible promotion coming up that you need someone from your team to take up. You have two main candidates in mind. Person A is hardworking, does all her own work to a high standard and also picks up others work at short notice. Person B is also getting good output within the expected performance level for the job.

So, one rock star and one average performer.

Who do you think gets the promotion? Not the rock star, after all I'll have to recruit to fill the vacancy and I don't want my department performance going down. I know the rock star will pick up the slack and do a great job training the new recruit. So I'll promote the average performer.

You're just not seeing this from your manager's perspective. If you genuinely want to progress, even a sideways move which is what you describe, you have got to manage up.

I think it's sounds a bit stingy too op, Especially as you are working very well in your current role. Would there be any chance of a secondment once you start shadowing the role?

I think it’s pretty stingy - an hour a week would have been more reasonable and given you a more consistent understanding.

Why should they pay her for an hour a week to train to essentially leave the company and find a different job? She should be doing that in her own time!

I would habe a conversation about career progression with your manager. Lay out what you would like, talk about what she has offered. But i would be continually picking up the slack for others. 1) that makes it less of an incentive for the manager to manage their staff and their staff to work 2) you make yourself less likely to be progressed as you are known as the one to pick up after people 3) you aren't paid anymore than the slackers I'm presuming?

So do your work, take your time and quality, have a conversation with your manager and take the shadowing. Look for other jobs while still employed, a change may be better progression.

I had similar in my first job in terms of work (no shadowing offered at all though). The manager was poor and useless. He didn't manage and expected the same 3 of us to pick up the slack for the 5 who messed about, took the piss with breaks and doing very little. His manager was more useless and progression was squashed. In the end we went to the union who advised us to continue our work to the highest quality, taking our time, and refuse to rush in the slackers work. To also demand equal treatment, which made things a lot less stressful and annoying and a better work atmosphere. The three of us all got much better jobs shortly after as we were sick of the culture there. A friend updated me that our manager was disciplined as was a bunch of the slackers and last i heard they employed someone decent instead and half the slackers left as they couldn't take the piss anymore.

But i would be continually picking up the slack for others

Should be wouldn't

When I wanted shadowing and work experience etc to help me to change direction, I reduced my working hours and did it on my day off, unpaid.

I think you'll need to make the most of the time you've been given for the work shadowing.
Is what you want to do totally different from what you are doing? It's hard to say without knowing the details, but are there volunteer opportunities, online courses etc you can do in your own time to compliment the work shadowing and increase your knowledge and experience? Can you use some annual leave for this?

I understand what it's like to be stuck in a job you hate, I've been there. Unfortunately I can't see your manager giving you more time off to effectively leave their team. You either have to sell the benefits to them, or use leave/spare time I think.

She isn't asking for training to leave the company, she wants training for a different role within the same company.

A lot of the people on this thread talking about how the OP isn't owed any training or how the company has no reason to train her don't really understand how investment in people works for companies.

A good company recognises that its most valuable asset by far is its workforce. That's why there is a whole industry built around helping companies reward and develop their staff.

Someone who wants to gain skills and develop their abilities should be encouraged to do so. It's unbelievably short sighted to say 'why should they train OP'. They should train her because if they don't, they will lose her to a different company and then they have to go through an expensive and time consuming recruitment and training process (with no guarantee that the replacement will work as hard or be as good as the person they lost). And they will have to keep doing that over and over again as talented and ambitious people realise there is no future in a company which doesn't invest in its employees.

I expect OP's manager is of the same view as some of you on this thread - that looking to expand your skills is uppity and entitled, and that you should be so grateful to have a job at all that you shouldn't expect any kind of loyalty or investment from your company.

It's bad management, and it's a bad attitude. People are valuable. If you don't invest in them, you don't keep good people.