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Original poster

Is Mum being too nice or should she get half the house now?

83 replies

IsSheTooNice · 22/07/2019 14:10

Sorry, long......
My mum, let's call her Jean, is in her mid-60s. For the last 20 years she's been married to a very nice (but dull) man, let's call him Colin. Colin is kind, dependable and adores her but he's a real home-bod and never wants to go anywhere, no sense of adventure or curiosity and it's got worse now he's retired. He hates spending money. She's much more sociable and likes to travel. Once she retired I think the prospect of a few decades watching him do the crossword and gardening tipped her over the edge and she decided to leave, he was heart-broken and she feels very guilty about this.
At this point she moved in with her sister, they get on very well, there's loads of room and they're both happy with this as a long-term arrangement.

Colin and Jean owned the house 50/50, it's a fairly standard smallish detached, they both sold smaller places to buy it. Jean has just decided to divorce but has said she plans to let Colin live in the house for as long as he wants and she will basically get her half when he dies. He's the same age as her. She hasn't sought legal advice yet (she obviously will) but I'm concerned that she may be being too nice - although she doesn't need the money now I'm worried that she might in the future and might not be able to get it, also she could undoubtedly have a better quality of life now and travel more whilst she's young enough to enjoy it. She doesn't want him to lose his home as well as his wife, if he had to sell then he'd have to buy a smaller terrace or flat whilst she lives in a nice house with her sister. Is this a sensible way forward that causes the least harm or is she being too nice because she feels guilty?

OP posts:
RowingMermaid · 22/07/2019 15:43

God forbid but if your Mum's sister died tomorrow what would the situation be with her house? My Mum died less than 3 months after being diagnosed with terminal cancer.

She needs a clean break. Sort out divorce and the house.

notatwork · 22/07/2019 15:44

Right now: she's relieved and feeling a bit guilty. He's upset.

In a years time: she's relieved and less guilty. He's on to anger

In 18 months time: she's getting on her sisters' nerves. He's moved in a new fiancée.

In 2 years time: she's renting a flat and can't afford to travel. he's refusing to put the house on the market. The new wife has sold her place and spent 25K to put a lovely conservatory on 'Colin's House'. She now has a claim too.

A clean break is usually better. I can't see any positive after the first 6 months in the situation Jean is proposing (once assuaging guilt is unnecessary).

MyCatHatesEverybody · 22/07/2019 15:48

He could probably do an equity release scheme to buy her out if he really wanted to.

HollowTalk · 22/07/2019 15:51

If he's as nice as she says he is, he's likely to be snapped up. There's a huge shortage of decent men around. What would happen then, if he moved Ms Right into the house?

Disfordarkchocolate · 22/07/2019 15:54

She also needs to think about why she feels guilty. Does Colin feel guilty about making your Mum unhappy?

namechangeninjaevervigilant · 22/07/2019 15:55

I agree that your mum would be very silly to let him live there indefinitely whilst she retains joint ownership. It’s a generous gesture but it means she will be liable for the maintenance costs of the house and council tax as long as Colin lives. She needs to get legal advice on this.

Incidentally I am just a few years younger than Jean and Colin. My DH is also a bit of a stick in the mud (although he wouldn’t dream of doing anything as active as gardening) whilst I am more active and love to travel. I don’t let DH’s couch potato tendencies stop me!

waterSpider · 22/07/2019 15:56

No pension lump sums in the offing to make a buyout possible?

I agree that a plan is needed to get towards a sale (or buyout), and to get on with the divorce / new wills.

What if he gets a young bride, who wants to stay there??

user1497997754 · 22/07/2019 15:56

She is living in cloud cuckoo land.....get legal advice I did something similar when I got divorced he is loaded now and I am poor in comparison .....

Original poster
IsSheTooNice · 22/07/2019 15:57

Thank you @MyCatHatesEverybody
Equity release is a good idea that I hadn't though of at all.

OP posts:
amicissimma · 22/07/2019 15:58

"I think Mum is an adult and you should keep out of it and your opinions to yourself tbh."

Although I have my DH to chew things over with, I consider we are very fortunate to have adult DCs who have different lives and experience to us and different insights into any situation. Although they sometimes offer unsolicited advice, I find their input generally helpful and invariably thought-provoking. They have helped us reach wiser decisions than we would have without them.

I would find them 'keeping their opinions to themselves', unhelpful and callous.

Piffle11 · 22/07/2019 15:59

I think you maybe do need to help your DM: I left a relationship where we owned the house 50/50: I felt so bad - even though I didn't cheat and he was horrible - that I ended up letting keep practically everything. I also paid half the mortgage and insurance whilst he fannied around, supposedly trying to raise the money to buy me out (took over a year). I let him take massive advantage, and I really wish that I'd had someone looking out for me, telling me not to be such a pushover. Even if Colin is super lovely, your DM needs to think of herself. What if Colin lives to his 90s, and your DM needs her equity to help pay for care, let alone for her to enjoy now? As others have said, all it needs is for Colin to meet someone else and then DM has got a bit of a nightmare on her hands … Colin remarries, dies, new wife gets his half, refuses to sell … dramatic, I know: but stuff like this happens and surely a clean break - either sell the house or Colin buys out DM - is the most sensible thing. How would your DM feel if Colin meets someone at the garden centre and moves her in before Christmas? Will DM still feel guilty and generous? I really do think that your DM will regret it in the long run.

Original poster
IsSheTooNice · 22/07/2019 16:00

No-one is doing anything in a rush or without good legal advice. They've been separated for over a year now and are on very good terms, this is the first time she's mentioned divorce so is just starting to think about her options.

OP posts:
poopypants · 22/07/2019 16:02

let her figure it out. Make sure she can decide to sell it at any point - in other words, she needs to make sure that by leaving him there and moving out, she doesn't lose any rights or value in the place. Other than that, let her do what she wants. Things change. She may want the money at some point. He may remarry and want to move the new partner in. Who knows. But for today, make sure she secures her part of the ownership LEGALLY and then let her do what ever she wants to do.No baddies here.

lawnmowingsucks · 22/07/2019 16:04

Of course it's up to DM

BUT as you're asking ... imo

  1. She should see a solicitor
  2. She should sell to release her money/get her ex to buy her out to release her money and also to avoid issues should ex decide to move a lady friend in to the property
  3. And then DM should buy a property which she can rent out to give her an income if she doesn't want to live in the property
Original poster
IsSheTooNice · 22/07/2019 16:05

Thanks @Piffle11 and everyone else.
I think I'll note down all the scenarios mentioned here and get her to give them some thought before she goes see a solicitor. I'm sure they'll have lots to say on it but at least if she's thought them all through she can have a better first meeting.

OP posts:
OrdinarySnowflake · 22/07/2019 16:07

Your Mum needs to consider what happens if:
a) she needs nursing care, would it not be better for force the sale now and give Colin time to sort out new arrangements while he's relatively young, than when he's also old and infirm?
b) what if her sister needs care, and the house your Mum is living in needs to be sold, where will she live?
c) What if Colin becomes infirm and the house /garden becomes too much for him ?
d) what if the house needs massive repairs etc? If she owns half the house, will she be liable for half the costs of a house she doesn't get to live in or receive rent for?
e) what if your Mum dies first and the house has to be sold from under Colin?

There's situations where Colin might be forced to sell because your Mum's situation has changed, surely it's kinder to do that now, while he's young enough to adapt and get a new house how he likes it, rather than when he's old and infirm?

He could do equity release and stay where he is with no ties to your Mum. They could sell up and Colin get a nice smaller property that suits him.

Suggest to her that it's unlikely that Colin will get to see out his days in that house, dying before it's too much for him, so surely it's less cruel to force him to move and deal with the emotional upheaval now while he's young enough to cope than when frail and eldery? (People like Colin can seem older than they are because they are boring, but tend to be the ones that last forever)

BrokenWing · 22/07/2019 16:11

Your mum should go to a solicitor. If she is planning on seeing her days out living with her sister she needs to discuss how she can protect herself if she and her sister fall out or if her sister dies first or needs to go into a care home?

Can she buy into her sisters home and then they both make wills bequeathing to who they wish to but giving each other lifelong free tenancy on the others death or admission to care home?

Rainonmyguitar · 22/07/2019 16:13

I think Mum is an adult and you should keep out of it and your opinions to yourself tbh

Is that really the best you can do? Why are you even on Mumsnet? Do you not know what it's about?

Sandybval · 22/07/2019 16:15

I think it's fair she gets her half, as others have said, her arrangement is working for now but if it doesn't it could be more complicated accessing money from the house. It seems the kinder thing to do for Colin as well, he loves the house and has been through heartbreak, but for him to move on surely he needs a clean break. Unless he is holding on to false hope for reconciliation? Is there no way he could remain in the house, is his income okay?

Sandybval · 22/07/2019 16:16

And it is half hers, her feeling bad about doing what she needed to do for herself (which is great) is not a reason to lose out.

CousinKrispy · 22/07/2019 16:21

Definitely encourage your mum to seek legal advice in order to prevent the many future complications of this. They could be more painful than Colin having to move house in the short run.

I can't help picturing him as Colin Robinson, the energy vampire from What We Do In the Shadows....

hazell42 · 22/07/2019 16:29

Why are you calling your mum Jean?
Do you think the name Mum is outing?
Get her to do whatever makes her feel less guilty BUT get the agreement drawn up by a solicitor so that when one of them dies the families aren't fighting over the coffin for their inheritance (we all know it happens)
Things to consider
What if one of them goes into a home?
Will the house need to be sold to pay for care?
How will the other ones share be protected?
What if one of them wants to remarry?
What if one of them runs out of cash and needs to sell?
I'm sure a solicitor would have more concerns too

SagAloojah · 22/07/2019 16:30

@hazell42 OP has already explained why she called her mum Jean.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 22/07/2019 16:31

Why are you calling your mum Jean? Try reading her posts.... and does it really matter? Norman and Norma, whatever... the facts remain the same!

What a weird thing to get hung up on!

Mummyoflittledragon · 22/07/2019 16:34

I think this is a bonkers idea. Colin is an adult and equal. Your mum is treating him like an injured dependant to assuage her current guilt. He isn’t.

He could adapt his life to be more what your mum wants and try to keep his wife. He’s choosing not to. Part of that choice is assuming the responsibility for not being able to live in the house of his choice.

Clean break required.