To not want to give MIL full scrutiny of our finances if she’s paying school fees

[Lostwords]

So MiL is maybe going to help with school fees for our son. My DH has the idea that we need to submit our spreadsheet of our finances to his Mum and that all our financial decisions become her business. I’m a bit uncomfortable with this idea. Of course she needs to understand our situation, but I’d present a summary of it rather than very detailed info? We have loaned my mum some of our savings on a short term basis, as she ran out of money to finish her building work. She is paying us back when the house sells. MiL now sees this as her business and is expressing extreme disapproval of my mum. I know that if she sees spreadsheet she’ll comment on what we should spend less on, etc. She is very opinionated and outspoken. Obvs I am v grateful that MiL might help, and want to do the right thing by everyone, but find it tricky to know where the boundaries should be. Thoughts?

Not read past your update OP, but imho MIL is trying to avoid paying inheritance tax, not give gifts to her GC.
I take it your DH went to private school, hence the insistence your DC goes too?
Perhaps have a chat with DH to remind him that his parents may have been able to afford private school, but you and he can't. And that's ok! I'd go state, and keep MIL far far away from your finances. How does she even know about you lending your DM money? If you tell people things about your life, they think they are entitled to an opinion.

Contrary to many on MN I don't have an issue with private education and send my DC to fee paying schools.

I would never, ever put myself in a situation where anyone could leverage control over my DCs wellbeing which is exactly what this is.

First she wants oversight of your finances, next she'll complain that she has never eaten a takeaway/had a massage/visited the theatre in her life and then she'll demand you stop doing the same because "why should she fund your frivolous lifestyle".

My MIL would have disapproved of my kindle habit, her whiskey habit was not discussed. You might as well hand your life over to her. Would she demand your monthly statements. Gawd talk about control.

MiL now sees this as her business and is expressing extreme disapproval of my mum

None of her goddammed business, yet she feels entitled to comment?
She is going to be even ghastlier as soon as you allow her an opinion about your own finances.
I would not be accepting any money from her under these circumstances. I would also be concerned that DH seems to feel it is normal to have his mother poke her nose into your financial affairs.

A spreadsheet is a fucking ridiculous intrusion.
MiL either wants to contribute, or she doesn't.
You can tell her what the fees cost, & she can decide on that alone whether she wants to chip in.
Personally, I would rather send my DC to state school & not worry about any of it.

Not even 12 years is it? 14 more like!

Yeah we don't have reception here so was a guesstimate

Good Lord whatever next. No way! Op, I'm a grandparent and give to my grandchildren unconditionally. My children's finances are nothing whatsoever to do with me and it is a dire invasion of your privacy for MIL to have access to your private affairs. Whatever next - will DH be inviting her in to your bedchamber? Holy Jesus.

I can sympathize with why your husband may find it really hard to consider sending your kid to a state school. If it's the norm in his family, for him and his siblings and now all the cousins, it can be really hard to break away from that.

There can be a sense in some families that this is what good parents are meant to do: give up everything to make sure their children have 'the best possible education'. If this is the norm in your family the way of showing love and support for your child it's very hard to break that down.

Coming to realize that, actually, it might not be necessary, that a free state education may have been just fine (and potentially better) for him and now for his child, can feel like heresy. He might feel a huge amount of guilt for not doing it, or not being financially in a position to pay himself.

So yes: I agree with other posters that it would be insane to accept your MILs offer of help, which will come with many many strings attached and cause all sorts of misery.

But in talking to your husband about it, be aware his resistance may not be him simply being a snob, but rather all sorts of deep seated feelings of guilt and responsibility and intergenerational debt. It will be hard for him to go against the grain and (in the eyes of his siblings and parents) deny his child 'the best'.*

*even though it is not actually the case that private = better.

No. No no no no no.

No.

If she wants to contribute the same towards your dc's school fees that she pays for the others, then fine, and very kind of her. Only contributing because she's gone through your finances to see whether you deserve it - absolutely not. This is supposed to be about her treating her gc equally. It shouldn't be dependent on their parents' money, or lack of it.

It’s a slippery slope IMO. If entering any financial situation with your MIL means that she is entitled to see all of your finances in detail, I’d stay well clear! It’s not reasonable.

Your finances are nobody’s business apart from yours and DH’s. I would tell her what the fees are and when she decides how much she is willing to contribute, I would discuss it with your DH and see if private school is realistically something you can afford.

No financial arrangement is worth becoming a prisoner to your MIL, and having her closely involved with your finances for the nest however many years

That would come under the "Not a fucking snowball's chance in hell" category for me.

I wouldn't even let my OWN parents have that level of access or control re. my finances, certainly not an IL!

If she won't do it without that level of unwarrantable intrusion, then fuck her and her money - and your DH can sort it out himself.

Your mother in law does not need to know full details of your financial situation. She either gives you some money towards the school fees or she doesn't but as she has said she will, I feel sure she'll be true to her word.

It's your husband who wants to give his mother spreadsheets about your money, he really should know better.

What a pity your mother in law knows about your loan to your mum, it's not her business and there was no reason for her to know. Your mum needed cash to finish building works and is going to pay you back so I cannot see a problem.

We sent DD1 to private school at 11+ due to her being badly bullied at state school. It was very tough financially but the best decision we ever made. DD2 (7 years younger) had no issues at state school but when she approached 11+ stage DH said we needed to offer her the same opportunity as DD1. I didn't agree with this; we had had years of struggling financially which I could see coming to an end with DD1 leaving school and didn't want that snatched away from me (we really needed new windows and a newer car!!). My mother and my sister handed us a financial plan outlining how they would help us finance DD2's schooling. It was so kind of them (neither have a lot of money), but there was no way we could accept. We would never be able to spend on any luxuries like holidays, without feeling guilty about it, or being embarrassed to mention it to them.

Anyway, to my horror DD2 decided that yes please, she did want to go to the same independent school as DD1, so we had to make it work ourselves. Tough times, but I would rather be skint than beholden any day. Fund it yourselves OP or not at all is my opinion.

Also, in my experience, the fees are only a part of the expense of private school. There are a lot of expensive extracurricular trips etc, and I think if you stretched yourself for the fees, you’d feel pressure to be able to meet the costs of all of these extra things too.

I’d also be worried about school being dependent on MIL. If circumstances and relationships changed over the next 12 or 13 years, your DC could be forced to move and settle at a new school if private school fees aren’t something you can afford on your own.

I think it’s relatively normal for GPs to pay school fees, but not overstep boundaries by knowing all of your financial details. Hopefully she can do one without the other 🙂

If you knew that you wanted to send your child to private school then it wasn't really a wise decision to lend your mother the money, OP. I'm guessing your DH wasn't very happy about it either, especially as you are expecting his mother to make up the shortfall now!

I see that she contributes to her other grandchildren's fees, but I also get the sense that you have left it late deliberately to reduce your options - why, when the schools have closed now, are you saying that you'd consider a state school

God no way.
Either she contributes freely or not at all.
Do you want to have to justify every takeaway, new item of clothing, shoes, holiday family Christmas and birthday gifts, night out etc to her ? To have her suck her teeth or put on a cats bum face if she doesn’t approve of your spending?

recklessgran is spot on.

However there are a couple of between the lines points which you may be in danger of unfairly deflecting onto MiL.

1. If you are not happy with Private but your DH insists then have a frank discussion about that rather than using the excuse of financing.
2. If your DH resents having helped out his MiL financially then he may well be seeking to enlist his DM to bolster his view with his spreadsheet notions.

YANBU, obviously. Any help should be given on a no-strings, no-questions basis.

Of course she needs to understand our situation No she doesn't. See above.
I’d present a summary of it rather than very detailed info You need to present sweet FA.

Tell your DH and MIL to jog on.

I believe in private schools OP ...I get it but Np to joint fees...the reason for this is money and relatives or friends do not mix well ...it only takes the slightest thing to make the arrangement tumble down like a stack of cards.Also has anyone looked long term at the fees? They go up every year and it gets more expensive.It is also not just the fees,its the uniform extra curricular stuff,music lessons.,swimming lessons.camps it all costs.Some fees cover everything other school fees dont so there are many extras..I know I have been there and paid! If your heart is set on it I would try for a bursary or scholarship place when your little one is 7....if they show talent or promise in a certain area they you may be lucky...this will allow you to fund it on your own.It needs so much consideration ...if one of you were to loose your job or you ended up on maternity pay it would make it so hard it would almost be impossible...I would start at 7 yrs I did for mine and it worked well...I get your MIL means well helping financially but its a recipe made to end in disaster....

Definitely not.
She either wants to pay or not, and she'll have you over a barrel. What if she changes her mind during the 13 years of school.
You also need to speak to your dh and separate your finances from your extended family, in the case of both mothers.
"neither a borrower or lender be"

Financing fees is an expensive long term commitment. However if GPs view this as "early inheritance" then AFAIK there are investment products available to secure the funding for the future. This would also be a much cleaner one-off commitment than annual "negotiations".

How does your DH feel about this? Was your DH happy to lend your mother some of your savings? Is your DH happy for your DC to attend state school.

While I completely agree with what others have said, I suspect it may now far more difficult to ask your DH to keep your MIL out of your finances now that your mother has become involved and a recipient of your finances.

No, no,no!!

This will end up causing no end of problems....don’t even consider it.

"My DH has the idea that we need to submit our spreadsheet of our finances to his Mum"

As many have said, fuck that for a game of soldiers. What a ridiculous statement for a grown man to make!

She either helps unconditionally or doesn't. Either way disclosing your private spending patters for her scrutiny is well off the table. A life time of being in debt to her (metaphorically) is not a nice way to live.

PS - It is only exempt from IHT from day 1 if it is out of income, not capital. The 7 year PET rule is in play if it is in the form of a lump sum. So it could also cause IHT issues for your indirectly to deal with.

Just had a quick Google for private school fees. Estimates between 13k - 15k each year for a day pupil. Let's say it's 10k for ease of calculation, and that you go halves with MIL. That's a conservative estimate of 140k over a 14 year education or 70k each before you add uniforms, trips and extra curricular activities and before you get onto the expenses of supporting a child at university. If you have more children you are going to be paying 2 or 3 lots of school fees/ uni support at some point. ( MIL must be seriously wealthy if she can keep this up for 6+ children)

70k + is a lot of quality of life sacrifice for the whole family if you are not particularly wealthy. If MIL/FIL passes away (sounds like you will get inheritance) do you want to spend 100k plus of your inheritance on private schooling and then do the same again for future children? You don't want to move them as they will be settled and have friends and may struggle to fit in after a private education.

I would go for state education but top up with extra curricular sport/music etc if you think it will enhance their education.

You might need to give the private school notice or pay a certain amount in lieu of notice now depending on the contract you have signed

I agree that it would be nicer for your kids to be a state school and taking every opportunity for extra curricular, school trips, school camps as well as your own holidays than at private school but unable to partake in every opportunity and your family struggling to have nice holidays (when most of the kids probably have loads of very flash ones). My worst fear would be that they go to private school and don't fit in but by then don't fit in at state school either.