To really dislike the attitude some people have about council estates?

[MoominMantra]

Specifically this;

'I grew up on a council estate but I wanted to better myself'

Better yourself? What does that actually mean? I think people like this are insecure and suffer from internalised shame about their roots.

I was then told that because I didn't grow up on a council estate myself then I have no right to an opinion on this.

All I know is that it's deeply unpleasant to look down on others whatever the circumstances. It's not wrong to be happy living on a council estate is it.

AIBU?

@Fakenametodayhey RTFT

My latest update shows you haven't

I had a very privileged upbringing, DH grew up on a London council estate. When we were first dating his Dad still lived there and we used to visit. It was hideous. We couldn’t drive there because it wasn’t wise to leave a car parked there so we caught the tube and then a cab, even though you could walk from the tube station you wouldn’t want to, it wasn’t pleasant or safe.

There was no lift and the stairwell constantly stunk of urine and marijuana. To access the flats you had to walk down a long external balcony corridor which was used by the residents for social gatherings. Which meant that you had to step over people camped outside their flats smoking, drinking, smoking weed, swearing, playing loud music with explicit lyrics, just to get to the front door. These people could be friendly, they could also be hostile, rude, obtrusive, even violent. It depended on their mood of that day.

The flat itself was small and dark, the view from the windows was of other blocks of flats. In the summer it was hot and in the winter it was cold and damp. There was a community but there was friction within the community. No one called the police, it wasn’t the community thing no matter which side you were on, so crime was high. DH’s Dad was robbed numerous times.

He died in his early 60s of natural causes, DH said he simply gave up on life.

To leave was to better yourself. DH is proud of having “bettered himself”, he leads a much better life than he would have had he stayed there. But it was not easy.

Council estates vary vastly, perhaps the “better yourself” label is unfair to apply to all.

Very few 'council estates' actually have properties that are council owned any more. The majority of the houses are privately owned

Where?? Not true where I live.

Benefit fraud or tax avoidance? What is the reason benefit fraud is not only illegal, but highly frowned upon; considered the practice of the lowest of the low, but tax avoidance is perfectly legal

73% of the uk working population engage in tax avoidance by contributing to a pension. What about you?

teacherofpeaches yes its council owned. They must have bought a few houses on this estate. It was built in 1892 so i don't know the history (but would be fascinated to learn).
I think they were originally mill workers cottages as there was a cotton mill nearby.

There is a council estate near me where the people seem perfectly nice

Op I think you have some rose tinted goggles on. Or you're very lucky and privileged and haven't spent much (or any) time on council estates.

I live in north London in one of the most over populated areas with some of the highest levels of serious violent crime in the city and country. I walk through a notorious council estate to get to work (I work in social housing too), it's famed for gang violence. Yes you'll see it sometimes in left wing media, well known rappers visiting 'working with the kids', quirky artist doing murals, the Mayor of London making speeches about bring the community back together with community centres or whatever. Who cares. It's all bollocks. Did you know they don't even clean the blood up after stabbings? I've had to give walk past / through it, numerous times. It's a mess. I know several people who have been stabbed or severely beaten on the estate. The kids are in gangs drug dealing or terrified, getting mugged for their shoes. It's a red light district. Much unemployment. There are high levels of serious mental health issues. It's not safe, it's not nice, and if anyone actually WANTED to be living there, there's something wrong. Good on every single person that's made it out, to something and somewhere better where they can feel proud and safe. I'm proud of anyone who worked hard and 'bettered themselves' off this estate. I've seen more than a couple leave via black ambulance.

I think the vast majority of council estates around the UK have higher levels of deprivation and poverty and by default lower expected levels of attainment than a similar sized privately owned housing estate, so someone who grew up in a sink estate and achieved 8 GCSE A-C grades would be considered to have done better than what was statistically expected.

I am in social work and generally speaking I regard council estates to be for the most vulnerable members of society (certainly in my area anyway) so moving out of one would be a step up in terms of social mobility. I do realise it isn't that clear cut though.

I guess I live in the middle of a "council estate". When you look at the land registry, swathes of homes around us are owned en masse by a local housing association. There are scattered individual homes in private ownership, ours is one of those.

It was affordable. If we had looked for a 3bed semi with this size of garden (for our son) in a "nice area" then it would have been 50-100% dearer, the mortgage couldn't have stretched that far. So beggars cannot be choosers; we bought here because it ticked boxes.

We're not in the middle of a war zone. We did have a drive-by shooting last year. We regularly have trail bikes driving at speed up the main road. We have a shouty bint right next door; but we are lucky that her teenage son doesn't play loud music until all hours, so she manages to keep him in check. Our car has not been keyed. It is bearable - we close the door, use our back garden, and don't engage with our neighbours.

'Op I think you have some rose tinted goggles on. Or you're very lucky and privileged and haven't spent much (or any) time on council estates. '

Possibly. But as I said, the person I based this thread on seems to feel he's just above living on a council estate. Where I live I think the estates are generally ok.

With all that said, I have lived in an area that wasn't an estate but a couple of roads away there would always be people dealing drugs & I had to keep calling the police because it was not what I wanted to see when my kids were coming home from school. And down the road, a body was found in the river. So I've not always lived in perfect areas. But I do take your point.

Not all.estates are as bad as people making out , I live on a council estate ( well all the council houses have been taken over by a large housing association) it is its issues ,but it ,s generally ok most people work ,and my neighbours are friendly .

I grew up on a council estate and vowed to do whatever it took to move. For me that was study hard, get into university and get a job that paid enough for me to rent elsewhere.
I feel no loyalty to that estate-it was hellish and made us all miserable with the constant noise and anti social behaviour.

Some may consider that ‘bettering’ themselves but it’s all words really- I don’t care how anyone views my choices, I’m very glad I made them.

I appreciate it isn’t an option for everyone but I won’t apologise that I’m delighted it was one for me.

That's my eperiance too x2boys
Where I grew up had some antisocial behaviour (not on the scale of stabbings or beatings) and didn't feel entirely safe, although most people were reasonable enough.
When we were looking to buy a place I was a little cautious about buying on a council estate. I needed to speak to people who lived there and get a bit of reassurance.
It would be silly to discount the presence of social problems but proper management and services make a huge difference. Estates vary a lot.
We've lived here 7 years and it's great.
Ive made some good friends. The kids have safe spaces to play out. The Mums all keep an eye out. In the summer evenings we have BBQs out in the square behind our block.
A lot of people are short of money. Some people have other social problems. But overall its functional.

I grew up in a vast country house, now live in a concrete council house 🤷🏼‍♀️

And it's fine, I don't keep well and neighbors
Keep an eye on me 😜

@cardamoncoffee

John Boughton (author of Municipal Dreams The Rise and Fall of Council Housing) on the welfarisation of council housing.

www.insidehousing.co.uk/insight/the-rise-and-fall-of-council-housing-56139

"the 1980s, residualisation may have been a partly unintended consequence of housing policies pursued with varying ideological intent"

Since 2010, and more so since the return of single-party Conservative government in 2015, we’ve seen something further: welfarisation – ‘a conception of social housing as a very small, highly residualised sector catering only for the very poorest, and those with additional social “vulnerabilities”, on a short-term “ambulance” basis

The problem with residualisation is that a blanket policy of policing ALL tenants is applied which leaves older tenants confused and upset and angry because they have done nothing wrong Here every time a tenant here has moved out or died they are replaced with someone who has a drug problem.

This is quite deliberate as Boughton explains. It turns estates into ghettos which i think is what a lot of people want because then they can say "look i was right"

Genius really.

Helena I appreciate it is complex but it is my experience. It's only on MN I read about tertiary sector workers living in SH, that is not my experience at all. Where I am estates (whether council of LA) are hubs of unemployment, ASB, crime and very little aspiration for the next generation. The people who do work are mostly the older generation who moved into the estate 30+ years ago in its infancy when the demograph was different.

Tenants know whats happening. We see you!

Maybe point out if their roots are in a council estate, maybe they should use some of their newly stumbled upon wealth to lend a hand up to the community that was theirs when they needed it.
Services are being cut to the bone. Genuinely there are so many causes they could help instead of looking down their noses.

I come from a council estate, I'm in the process of buying my first house. Instead of looking down my nose, I look back and remember how hard the first days of my adulthood were, without the "low lives" of the council estate, I wouldn't have eaten most weeks. Without the low lives of the council estate I lived in I would have not had furniture. Some of the kindest people I've ever met were on that council estate (some of the worst too, but honestly there were complete strangers who kept an eye out for me) I always give to the food bank in the area.

Honestly, to hell with people who say ignorant stuff, some of the humdingers ive heard were,
From a man I was seeing- I am shocked how nice your council flat is, I thought there would be passed out drunks and piss up the walls and glass and needles on my way up...I was shocked that he had never been on a council estate in his life.

A friend at school. Their house looks like what a prostitute would live in. Prostitutes live in council houses....um? I remember trying to explain that my families house was council and we didnt know any prostitutes at all.

Does it mean I grew up in council house and would like to own my own home?

Or when referring to council estates do we mean bought and still council owned properties?

I own an ex council house and looking around would assume that 100% of the houses within 10 doors each way of me are owned.

Yes but there are people on here who say social housing should only be for those in severe need or who have problems

WHAT THE FUCK DID THEY THINK WAS GOING TO HAPPEN.

And the paternalism is applied to ALL tenants whether whether they have problems or not. I mentioned my neighbour who smokes really strong weed on another thread and got told to live and let live. The smell gets all over my flat He is directly underneath.

Last week we were expected to share an electric key with him Our meter boxes were changed and there wernt enough keys to go around.

Neither of these things would have been expected from me and DH if we were home owners.

I lived on a council estate, it was a new house but had a damp problem and was not well built. The estate was ok to start with but soon developed social problems and anti social behaviour, at times I was afraid to leave the house.
Personally, I would be very wary about living on a council estate again and would avoid this if possible. I don't believe I have "bettered" myself though. It depends on the estate.

Do you met one snobby twat (they come from all backgrounds) and judge everyone that was raised on a council estate that states they'd bettered themselves/done better for themselves/whatever sense of pride they have by his words?

You've never lived on one,your kid is/was privately educated...you have no idea how bad it can be. Sometimes it's not. But sometimes, the sarcastic comment a pp made about them not escaping shark infested waters was painfully accurate.

If you think he's a snobby,ignorant twat,take that up with him. But don't be a dick and try to take away the sense of pride and achievement some people have for getting out of their childhood hell.

Post Grenfell DHs mobility scooter was a problem We were told to get rid of it or they would take it and destroy it. I tried to resolve this amicably with them and they wouldnt budge. It was only resolved after i took to social media DH now has a shed which he happily pays for

The stoners can of petrol stored under the stairs was fine and dandy though.

@sluj