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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Child maintenance

224 replies

Pankhurst09 · 21/07/2019 00:39

So after reading a Facebook blog from ‘single mum still standing’ and living under the threat of maintenance payments being used as a means of control, and hearing the same issues/grievances from all my resident parent circle, I’m keen to know if the majority feel the same, or just some constructive feedback before I lobby my MP. Thanks in advance.

*This is my experience within the Scottish system.

After reading the very insightful post about maintenance from “Single Mum Still Standing” and the fantastic top comment from Phil Dooner and receiving yet another threat about maintenance, it really angers and saddens me that this country does not have systems in place to allow a fair and adequate system of control for the care of, and fair maintenance payments towards children after separation and divorce.

I have been separated for four years but still after all this time it comes back to maintenance and threats, if I ‘step out of line’

Even if the non resident parent makes a very decent wage but works under a limited company any maintenance payments would only be based on what has been declared. I’ve had regular threats to stop payments and this has happened in the past.

This needs to stop! It’s not just about maintenance payments, it’s about fairness and decency and a just society and actually teaching our children accountability. You have a child, you care for them, regardless of any other factor, they should be priority, period.

What are we teaching children right now? The resident parent must provide all, be all, expect nothing, unless the non resident parent is honest, moral, decent enough, can be bothered to provide.

The system as it stands says;

Resident parent it’s YOUR child, BUT when it comes to rights and access, it’s both ‘YOUR’ child/children, therefore if the non resident parent decides not to pay for whatever reason they deem fit, there’s not one thing you can do about it.

Non resident parent wants 50/50 access ‘YOUR’ child could well be subject to this growing ‘trend’ in court systems. Non resident parent wants to return after many days, weeks, years of not being present ‘YOUR’ child most probably will be forced into contact. Non resident parent has committed a crime? even towards the resident parent! Still a good chance ‘YOUR’ child will still have to endure contact. ‘YOUR’ child has to move house, schools, quit groups, have less than they would have had, not have what their peers have, not participate in the same clubs, not have the same life chances and opportunities? because the non resident parent just decides not to pay towards ‘YOUR’ child, tough, it’s actually YOUR child, and they can walk away from every last bit of responsibility if they so choose.

Resident parent, ensure you have a safe place to stay, food on the table, school clothes, trip money, activities, transport, homework done, emotional care, hygiene, clean beds, clean clothes, good communication with schools, groups, non resident parents (in fact be their PA because it’s your fault if they’re not kept up to date), Keep your own calendar up to date, make play dates, read parenting information, discuss well being, attend events, parents evenings and plays and sports days, do school runs and drop offs, attend doctors and dentists, make Halloween costumes and complete projects, make packed lunches and diners, and of course WORK! But understand your work isn’t important, the non resident parent’s work is much more important and you also need to source childcare and that is your responsibility. Child is ill... that’s your responsibility, not the non resident parent, and there is absolutely, not one iota of responsibility that they need to take, and there is absolutely not one iota of accountability enforced.

Resident parent however, if you don’t/can’t be bothered to provide?. have another family and can’t be bothered with your children from your first relationship? lose your job and can’t feed your children, self employed and choose not to declare all of your earnings and spend the majority on yourself to the detriment of your child’s well being?decide not to care adequately or communicate about your child because of another partner,Just don’t bother to turn up for your child?... ABANDONMENT and NEGLECT. And we will not just advocate those rights for your child and non resident parent, we will enforce them.

So, what is this teaching OUR children? Future generations? And where is the fairness or balance in this system?

The government needs to take this seriously when it comes to enforcing adequate care of OUR children. They are keen to promote a country that is child centred. There is nothing child centred in this archaic, toothless system. Non resident parents are afforded all the rights of a resident parent with zero responsibility. A system that actually allows and fosters control and abuse.

Other countries such as America or Australia have powers to arrest wages. In our tax system that can quite easily persecute a single parent that hasn’t declared their exact earnings or who can wipe out a local business with investigations I find it very hard to understand how they can’t ensure EVERY non resident parent is paying the pitiful bare minimum that the government suggests.

This bare minimum (if you’re lucky, equates to pounds a day) let’s see any of you non resident parents bring up well rounded, well adjusted individuals that deserve all the life chances that any child deserves whether their parents remained together or not, on a few pounds a day.

And this is where the Adverse Childhood Experiences really kick in, although the separation is traumatic, it’s the prolonged control and negativity this backward system allows.

It should be very simple, make non resident parents accountable just like resident parents. Have laws to enforce this, have a system with teeth, arrest wages, have a fair standard amount awarded to the resident parent at time of separation that is not controlled by the non resident parent, that does not allow any form of control, don’t allow abandonment, neglect, or abuse from either parent. It really shouldn’t be this difficult.

Us resident parents are tired, we’re tired of fighting a fight we shouldn’t have to. The majority want the best for our children, we want laws in place to protect our children and us and ultimately our country’s future.

This is a much bigger debate but to kick it off I’m asking for a petition to award an initial standard amount to the resident parent at the time of separation (in the exact same manner as government child tax payments would be awarded) that comes directly from the non resident parents wages/benefits/income. A payment that cannot be controlled or adjusted by the non resident parent and is not ‘means based’ on the non resident parent, what an utterly preposterous system in the first place. We have an actual living, little human being here, who needs care and food and much more, not a ridiculous tiny little percentage of an often made up income. Because at the moment you can have a situation where the non resident parent is required to pay nothing, so by this logic ‘their’ child should have nothing? How can this be right?
(*taking into consideration that many non resident parents are pushing for extra nights access only because this backward system then reduces the amount they have to pay, many are self employed and only declaring a little while their lifestyle tells a very different story, many straight up just don’t pay, many just pay when they want, many use maintenance payments as means of control for years and years and years, it should be a fair, standard amount in line with the cost of living and inflation, and bringing up a child in line with costs such as weekly/monthly food, childcare, health, activities, clothes, shoes, housing, utility bills, phone contracts, prior commitments etc... the list could go on) a fairer, further amount should then be based on what was a prior lifestyle for the children, house, area, clubs, activities, bills, and also future clubs, activities, needs, college/university etc... (not the now made up wage of the non resident parent).

The funny (or not so funny) thing is, I instantly imagined an outcry at that above list! “Phone contracts”?! And that is exactly where the problem lies...

The percentage of female judges in Scotland and the rest of the UK was sitting at an all time low when a study was conducted in 2016 (24% in Scotland and only 30% in England and Wales while the continent wide average was 51%)

Women struggle to get above 30% in the Scottish Parliament and 20% in the House of Lords...

Taken from gingerbread.org ...

In the UK “There are around 1.8 million single parents – they make up nearly a quarter of families with dependent children (i)”

“Around 90 per cent of single parents are women.”

I’ll let you draw your own conclusions from these statistics.

I’m proposing a standard amount at time of separation that is paid directly into the resident parents bank account at time of separation that comes directly from the non resident parents income without any penalty to the resident parent/child (as is the current system) and this must be enforceable by law with the same penalties as not paying your council tax etc... (again highlighting the importance being placed on our children in this current system)

It’s still not morally right or fair but it’s a start.

OP posts:
JacquesHammer · 21/07/2019 18:50

No. He left you for her. He didnt leave your kids

Don’t be fucking ridiculous.

You’ve only to read MN to know how often that happens.

My DD has a friend at school whose Dad walked out. She’s not seen him since. They’ve no idea where he’s living, his phone number has changed.

hsegfiugseskufh · 21/07/2019 18:58

Why is it up to the mother to offer anything? Why isn't it up to the NRP to ask, or provide childcare?
It should be a discussion but lets face it most women are rp and generally rp call the shots when it comes to access.

Why do i need to apologise? Unless he was also married to his children i wasnt wrong.

BitchQueen90 · 21/07/2019 19:01

Yeah, I can't imagine all these NRPs that don't bother paying maintenance would be willing to do 50/50 childcare somehow.

JacquesHammer · 21/07/2019 19:02

It should be a discussion but lets face it most women are rp and generally rp call the shots when it comes to access

Let’s face it, most men are NRP and a substantial number aren’t man enough to pay maintenance for the child.

JacquesHammer · 21/07/2019 19:03

Yeah, I can't imagine all these NRPs that don't bother paying maintenance would be willing to do 50/50 childcare somehow

laughable isn’t it BitchQueen, yet it seems to the the MRA theme song on threads about feckless fathers.

hsegfiugseskufh · 21/07/2019 19:03

But if 50/50 became more the norm, men considering leaving the mother of their children would take it into consideration.

Because eow is "normal" thats all the expect to do a lot of the time.

We need to get this idea out of our heads that raising kids is womens work. Its not.

hsegfiugseskufh · 21/07/2019 19:04

MRA? please.

BitchQueen90 · 21/07/2019 19:05

My exh, who happily pays his maintenance and has DS on weekends and midweek overnights still would not want to do 50/50. And he's a reasonable bloke. A hell of a lot of NRPs are not reasonable blokes and want to have their DC as little as possible, you only need to read MN to see that.

hsegfiugseskufh · 21/07/2019 19:05

It seems the sensible option for anyone with half a brain though.
No money needs to change hands. Fair workload. Influence from both parents. Everyone gets time off.

hsegfiugseskufh · 21/07/2019 19:06

Its not really reasonable to want to see your dc as little as possible is it?

Thats not what id call a reasonable bloke tbh.

JacquesHammer · 21/07/2019 19:06

My exh, who happily pays his maintenance and has DS on weekends and midweek overnights still would not want to do 50/50. And he's a reasonable bloke

Exactly the same. He also is very vocal in criticising NRPs who don’t pay maintenance because he’s an intelligent chap and he knows it doesn’t apply to him ergo isn’t offensive.

JacquesHammer · 21/07/2019 19:08

It seems the sensible option for anyone with half a brain though

Arf. Maybe try employing your “half a brain” to consider that couples can usually work out what is best for their children. And that 50/50 quite often isn’t that.

hsegfiugseskufh · 21/07/2019 19:10

They clearly cant though can they? If that was the case there would be no need for cms, for family court or thread after thread on here about what a twat their ex husband or wife is.

JacquesHammer · 21/07/2019 19:11

They clearly cant though can they? If that was the case there would be no need for cms, for family court or thread after thread on here about what a twat their ex husband or wife is

You’re extrapolating. Think more critically.

BitchQueen90 · 21/07/2019 19:11

JacquesHammer mine is exactly the same. And when I was on benefits for a bit after we split he wouldn't even dream of telling me that I wasn't "financially providing" for our child. Shame that even some women have that opinion though!

TeaLibrary · 21/07/2019 19:12

We all know the system is utterly failing the children it is intended to support. The number of non resident parents who abdicate any and all financial / shared caring responsibility for their children is a testament that the system is broken and corrupt. I think it should be a criminal offence and it should carry a jail term. It might actually deter deadbeat parents from trying to evade their responsibilities,

JacquesHammer · 21/07/2019 19:13

We all know the system is utterly failing the children it is intended to support. The number of non resident parents who abdicate any and all financial / shared caring responsibility for their children is a testament that the system is broken and corrupt

Absolutely.

Even more galling when you consider the CMS don’t use the sanctions at their disposal towards those who abdicate financial responsibilities.

hsegfiugseskufh · 21/07/2019 19:13

How am i extrapolating?

Its clear that most seperated couples cannot agree on shit like this.

CanILeavenowplease · 21/07/2019 19:14

Single mothers are not struggling what's so ever

Hahahahahaha! You say you were a single parent? You speak for every single parent? You know all their circumstances and the particular peculiarities of each indivial situation? No, didn’t think so. Confused

All this whining about childcare

I found childcare easy but then my children’s primary had wraparound care and I am a teacher. But even with that, at one point my average monthly childcare cost was c.£800 whilst I had a salary of £1.2k. How do you think I would have managed without child benefits and tax credits? How do you think people manage without family support? How would a nurse who had to do night shifts manage? Or people working ever-changing shifts over 7 days. Or people on 0 hours. And how on earth do they manage life as well like sick parents, doctors appointments, early/late meetings at work?

JacquesHammer · 21/07/2019 19:15

Its clear that most seperated couples cannot agree on shit like this

See that word most?

It seems the sensible option for anyone with half a brain though

How does this apply then?

You can’t use an arbitrary suggestion for every separated couple.

JacquesHammer · 21/07/2019 19:15

JoanMavisIcecreamGirl

Do you do 50/50 with your ex?

hsegfiugseskufh · 21/07/2019 19:16

Would there be threads like this if the majority of seperated couples could agree? No. No there would not.

Thats my opinion and i stand by tgat 50/50 should be the place to start.

hsegfiugseskufh · 21/07/2019 19:18

I dont have an ex....

Dp does not do 50/50 with his ex but its what he has persistently asked for. Dss ended up living with us in the end. Now hes prob about 50/50 because hes old enough to come and go as he pleases.

If i split up with dp we will go 50/50 for ds without a shadow of a doubt.

JacquesHammer · 21/07/2019 19:18

Would there be threads like this if the majority of seperated couples could agree? No. No there would not

Well yes because, and I’m aware it’s a tricky concept, majority isn’t all.

hsegfiugseskufh · 21/07/2019 19:18

Dp *did not do