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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Child maintenance

224 replies

Pankhurst09 · 21/07/2019 00:39

So after reading a Facebook blog from ‘single mum still standing’ and living under the threat of maintenance payments being used as a means of control, and hearing the same issues/grievances from all my resident parent circle, I’m keen to know if the majority feel the same, or just some constructive feedback before I lobby my MP. Thanks in advance.

*This is my experience within the Scottish system.

After reading the very insightful post about maintenance from “Single Mum Still Standing” and the fantastic top comment from Phil Dooner and receiving yet another threat about maintenance, it really angers and saddens me that this country does not have systems in place to allow a fair and adequate system of control for the care of, and fair maintenance payments towards children after separation and divorce.

I have been separated for four years but still after all this time it comes back to maintenance and threats, if I ‘step out of line’

Even if the non resident parent makes a very decent wage but works under a limited company any maintenance payments would only be based on what has been declared. I’ve had regular threats to stop payments and this has happened in the past.

This needs to stop! It’s not just about maintenance payments, it’s about fairness and decency and a just society and actually teaching our children accountability. You have a child, you care for them, regardless of any other factor, they should be priority, period.

What are we teaching children right now? The resident parent must provide all, be all, expect nothing, unless the non resident parent is honest, moral, decent enough, can be bothered to provide.

The system as it stands says;

Resident parent it’s YOUR child, BUT when it comes to rights and access, it’s both ‘YOUR’ child/children, therefore if the non resident parent decides not to pay for whatever reason they deem fit, there’s not one thing you can do about it.

Non resident parent wants 50/50 access ‘YOUR’ child could well be subject to this growing ‘trend’ in court systems. Non resident parent wants to return after many days, weeks, years of not being present ‘YOUR’ child most probably will be forced into contact. Non resident parent has committed a crime? even towards the resident parent! Still a good chance ‘YOUR’ child will still have to endure contact. ‘YOUR’ child has to move house, schools, quit groups, have less than they would have had, not have what their peers have, not participate in the same clubs, not have the same life chances and opportunities? because the non resident parent just decides not to pay towards ‘YOUR’ child, tough, it’s actually YOUR child, and they can walk away from every last bit of responsibility if they so choose.

Resident parent, ensure you have a safe place to stay, food on the table, school clothes, trip money, activities, transport, homework done, emotional care, hygiene, clean beds, clean clothes, good communication with schools, groups, non resident parents (in fact be their PA because it’s your fault if they’re not kept up to date), Keep your own calendar up to date, make play dates, read parenting information, discuss well being, attend events, parents evenings and plays and sports days, do school runs and drop offs, attend doctors and dentists, make Halloween costumes and complete projects, make packed lunches and diners, and of course WORK! But understand your work isn’t important, the non resident parent’s work is much more important and you also need to source childcare and that is your responsibility. Child is ill... that’s your responsibility, not the non resident parent, and there is absolutely, not one iota of responsibility that they need to take, and there is absolutely not one iota of accountability enforced.

Resident parent however, if you don’t/can’t be bothered to provide?. have another family and can’t be bothered with your children from your first relationship? lose your job and can’t feed your children, self employed and choose not to declare all of your earnings and spend the majority on yourself to the detriment of your child’s well being?decide not to care adequately or communicate about your child because of another partner,Just don’t bother to turn up for your child?... ABANDONMENT and NEGLECT. And we will not just advocate those rights for your child and non resident parent, we will enforce them.

So, what is this teaching OUR children? Future generations? And where is the fairness or balance in this system?

The government needs to take this seriously when it comes to enforcing adequate care of OUR children. They are keen to promote a country that is child centred. There is nothing child centred in this archaic, toothless system. Non resident parents are afforded all the rights of a resident parent with zero responsibility. A system that actually allows and fosters control and abuse.

Other countries such as America or Australia have powers to arrest wages. In our tax system that can quite easily persecute a single parent that hasn’t declared their exact earnings or who can wipe out a local business with investigations I find it very hard to understand how they can’t ensure EVERY non resident parent is paying the pitiful bare minimum that the government suggests.

This bare minimum (if you’re lucky, equates to pounds a day) let’s see any of you non resident parents bring up well rounded, well adjusted individuals that deserve all the life chances that any child deserves whether their parents remained together or not, on a few pounds a day.

And this is where the Adverse Childhood Experiences really kick in, although the separation is traumatic, it’s the prolonged control and negativity this backward system allows.

It should be very simple, make non resident parents accountable just like resident parents. Have laws to enforce this, have a system with teeth, arrest wages, have a fair standard amount awarded to the resident parent at time of separation that is not controlled by the non resident parent, that does not allow any form of control, don’t allow abandonment, neglect, or abuse from either parent. It really shouldn’t be this difficult.

Us resident parents are tired, we’re tired of fighting a fight we shouldn’t have to. The majority want the best for our children, we want laws in place to protect our children and us and ultimately our country’s future.

This is a much bigger debate but to kick it off I’m asking for a petition to award an initial standard amount to the resident parent at the time of separation (in the exact same manner as government child tax payments would be awarded) that comes directly from the non resident parents wages/benefits/income. A payment that cannot be controlled or adjusted by the non resident parent and is not ‘means based’ on the non resident parent, what an utterly preposterous system in the first place. We have an actual living, little human being here, who needs care and food and much more, not a ridiculous tiny little percentage of an often made up income. Because at the moment you can have a situation where the non resident parent is required to pay nothing, so by this logic ‘their’ child should have nothing? How can this be right?
(*taking into consideration that many non resident parents are pushing for extra nights access only because this backward system then reduces the amount they have to pay, many are self employed and only declaring a little while their lifestyle tells a very different story, many straight up just don’t pay, many just pay when they want, many use maintenance payments as means of control for years and years and years, it should be a fair, standard amount in line with the cost of living and inflation, and bringing up a child in line with costs such as weekly/monthly food, childcare, health, activities, clothes, shoes, housing, utility bills, phone contracts, prior commitments etc... the list could go on) a fairer, further amount should then be based on what was a prior lifestyle for the children, house, area, clubs, activities, bills, and also future clubs, activities, needs, college/university etc... (not the now made up wage of the non resident parent).

The funny (or not so funny) thing is, I instantly imagined an outcry at that above list! “Phone contracts”?! And that is exactly where the problem lies...

The percentage of female judges in Scotland and the rest of the UK was sitting at an all time low when a study was conducted in 2016 (24% in Scotland and only 30% in England and Wales while the continent wide average was 51%)

Women struggle to get above 30% in the Scottish Parliament and 20% in the House of Lords...

Taken from gingerbread.org ...

In the UK “There are around 1.8 million single parents – they make up nearly a quarter of families with dependent children (i)”

“Around 90 per cent of single parents are women.”

I’ll let you draw your own conclusions from these statistics.

I’m proposing a standard amount at time of separation that is paid directly into the resident parents bank account at time of separation that comes directly from the non resident parents income without any penalty to the resident parent/child (as is the current system) and this must be enforceable by law with the same penalties as not paying your council tax etc... (again highlighting the importance being placed on our children in this current system)

It’s still not morally right or fair but it’s a start.

OP posts:
hsegfiugseskufh · 21/07/2019 09:08

pank if thats the issue then wouldn't 50/50 be better all round?

CanILeavenowplease · 21/07/2019 09:09

It’s not the same as directly neglecting your children though is it

I understand what you’re saying but it is out and out neglect to pay nothing at all on a continued basis (my ex is at 10 years and counting) and shows a blatant disregard for a child’s welfare.

hsegfiugseskufh · 21/07/2019 09:10

It does show disregard but its not directly neglecting your child.

Pankhurst09 · 21/07/2019 09:10

Seaside pebbles I completely agree. Sweden seem to be a much more child centred nation. It obviously serves them well, I wish this government would take heed.

OP posts:
CanILeavenowplease · 21/07/2019 09:13

I also think that far more responsibility needs to be enforced so any child benefits claimed should be given in the form of a loan that is not written off and has to be repaid with interest within a certain time frame

Yeah, put the costs onto the RP...again. Do you not see how that would work? I had 3 children in marriage with a successful business behind us and no benefits. Husband left and for a while there - about 6 years - I absolutely needed benefits to get by. Ex hasn’t paid a penny. So you now want me to have brought up 3 children alone and to pay back what I received?

CanILeavenowplease · 21/07/2019 09:15

It does show disregard but its not directly neglecting your child

So if I put no food in my child’s mouth, it’s neglect. If my ex doesn’t put food in his child’s mouth, it isn’t neglect?

HollyGoLoudly1 · 21/07/2019 09:16

I also think that far more responsibility needs to be enforced so any child benefits claimed should be given in the form of a loan that is not written off and has to be repaid with interest within a certain time frame

Don't agree with this at all. Any of us at any given time could end up depending on benefits for a variety of reasons. Doesn't matter how well you plan, life isn't always that predictable.

TeachesOfPeaches · 21/07/2019 09:16

@Penguincity @SeaSidePebbles Hello, I have a thread in Lone Parents called Professional Single Parents.

It's a safe space for us RP continually accused of being feckless drains on society but actually work full time and support our children alone, successfully.

mindproject · 21/07/2019 09:16

There was a petition about this a few years ago. I signed it and posted to Facebook. Not one of my 400 friends liked or signed it.

LemonSqueezy0 · 21/07/2019 09:17

To go back to the OP - your post is way too emotional and personal. If you were sending that to your MP I don't think they could see the wood for the trees with all you've written.

You will get a lot of mixed responses, as everyone's case is different. Not all RP are hard done by, on benefits or putting their children first. Not all NRP are trying to get away without paying, or trying to get more access just to piss off the RP and not all put their children first. It's a real mixed bag. And one size does not fit all.

They won't Imprison anyone...it's not right of course, but people who look at horrific child abuse pictures only get suspended sentences, so I don't see prison happening when children are essentially fine, and still being cared for by the RP.

mindproject · 21/07/2019 09:19

Of course it's neglect, but the rumour that the ex 'is just after my money' has been spread far and wide and most people think single mums made their own bed so they should lie in it. Women are always to blame.

That's the attitude I have always come across. I hate that attitude.

hsegfiugseskufh · 21/07/2019 09:20

So if I put no food in my child’s mouth, it’s neglect. If my ex doesn’t put food in his child’s mouth, it isn’t neglect?

If you starve your child whilst their with you, its neglect. If he starves your child whilst theyre with him, its neglect.

If he doesnt pay you maintenance he is not directly starving your child so no imo its not neglect.

Ive said it before and ill say it again. In an ideal world you should be able to rely on maintenance as reliable income but in the real world, you cant, not if you have an unreliable ex anyway. If your ex is even slightly unreliable its foolish to rely on maintenance to pay your bills and feed your child.

It shouldn't be this way but it is so you have to deal with it because realistically nothing will change.

HollyGoLoudly1 · 21/07/2019 09:34

@mindproject

Of course that attitude sucks but it does go both ways. I know a few NRPs (my DH included) who have been painted as the deadbeat dad, off living the life of Larry and being Disney dads. Nothing could be further from the truth. He was brought to the edge of a nervous breakdown trying to sort out access, on antidepressants at one point, cut out of every major event/decision, with his ex using access as a means of control. It was horrendous and I still can't quite believe that the only option is 'well just take her to court'.

People say NRPs have all the rights and no responsibilities - that's certainly not been my experience sadly. Glad to say it is (mostly) consistent now.

ChocolateMonsta · 21/07/2019 09:34

50/50? Shared care? My ex refuses to even see our children. He hasn’t seen them in over 2 years. So that wouldn’t work. He also has never paid maintenance as he chooses not to work because he doesn’t want to pay for kids he doesn’t see, his own words. I’ve accepted no maintenance though that’s never going to chance the system will never change.

BitchQueen90 · 21/07/2019 09:34

IceCream a lot of people CAN fund their children until their relationship breaks down and they become single parents. My ex earns good money, I do not. No way could my wage alone cover childcare costs AND all the other bills. Thankfully I am one of the lucky ones whose ex DOES pay maintenance willingly. A lot of others are not so lucky.

I don't know anyone who could afford to pay bills and childcare for multiple children on a single wage.

Pankhurst09 · 21/07/2019 09:38

Mindproject that’s the thing. I think people a reluctant to openly show support for this type of petition. Like many other posters have said there is a societal norm that mothers should just put up and shut up and the NP should just accept this. I also think others feel like that they somehow jinx their own situation if they show support.

A few posters have said the proposed letter is too emotional, I agree. I would need to tidy it up and cut it down. There were just so many points I wanted to make about the current complete unfairness and imbalance in the system. If a quarter of UK households are in this situation (given some will be working well and I agree not all NRP’s are controlling) there is a huge amount of us not being heard, and I think that comes back to the statistics of under representation in policy making and also our society’s attitude towards single mothers. I’m actually quite shocked at the number of women that don’t see the inequality in the current system.

OP posts:
AnneLovesGilbert · 21/07/2019 09:44

You’re looking at just child support but when a couple who have children and are married divorce, provision is usually made for the RP, a bigger proportion of the house and spousal support etc which is still a thing, mesher orders. The same amount of money which once supported one household then has to support two. You can’t on the one hand say the NRP has to house, feed and clothe the DC, give them their own rooms as so often declared on here, even if it’s only EOW, and then expect them to pay your set amount to accommodate, feed and clothe them at the RPs, plus phone contracts, school trips, extracurricular stuff while the RP either also has a job or gets the associated benefits of being a low earner with DC. There’s a finite amount coming in and far more needs to be met.

Your post is incredibly long and I can’t now find your exact wording but you also can’t complain when the NRP wants more time with the DC which will involve all the costs of looking after them and accuse them of doing it to reduce payments. If your point is that child support doesn’t come close to the costs of actually having the DC you can’t really be saying the NRP is making is making savings by reducing payments a tiny bit but has to instead house, feed, clothe and entertain them instead.

MissB83 · 21/07/2019 09:46

Removing the roles of NRP/RP doesn't work for everyone. My son (17 months) hasn't seen his father in 7 months. They have no contact at all. How can you suggest that a parent who hasn't seen their child in months would suddenly have 50/50 contact?! Lots of NRP don't see their children.

Pankhurst09 · 21/07/2019 09:48

Annelovesgilbert, many couples don’t instantly divorce, we haven’t after four years. We left with equal amounts and I still get threats from him that he will go after my pension when we do divorce, so I stand by my point it’s an unfair and unbalanced system, that is not child centred.

OP posts:
Pankhurst09 · 21/07/2019 09:50

Missb83, I agree. I don’t believe 50/50 contact is in the best interest of most children.

OP posts:
AnneLovesGilbert · 21/07/2019 09:57

Why haven’t you got divorced? Your pension like all other assets go in the pot and you may have to share it with him. That’s the deal when you get married.

Musereader · 21/07/2019 10:15

Not always. Plenty of RP earn above thresholds. But do go ahead with the stereotype of ‘single mum on benefits’, won’t you

Then the parents who are earning over the threshold can afford the child without help from nrp?

I am a single parent earning 20k pa and getting ~ 1k benefits pcm (mostly childcare) and £29.11 pcm from my ex (sometimes). I manage and if i was on 50k i wouldnt need benefits or maintenence at all. Im not flush but not quite poor, only just above poor though.

I agree that he should pay what he should and it should be better enforced but all enforcements suggested are things cms do. And as i said paying pwc money and recovery from nrp was already a feature of 1993 scheme cms which did not work.

Yes my standard of living would be slightly higher if nrp paid more or more reliably but i get money for the child that he does not which allows me to take care of her. I am living on my wage and benefits and his maintenence, not just his maintenence

Stressedout10 · 21/07/2019 10:18

I just wish that when you finally get a maintenance order it was enforced my dds want peace of a dad owes over £70000 in back payments! We haven't seen a penny in 16 years yet he has 3 houses, flash cars and multiple foreign holiday each year. We haven't been able to go on holiday ever.
And now I am having to fight for the student grant people not to take the child maintenance into account as we don't get it and if they count it my dd can't afford to go to university 🤬

MissB83 · 21/07/2019 10:19

I'm afraid I don't agree that a NRP shouldn't pay maintenance just because the RP earns over a certain threshold. Running a whole household on £45/50k with a substantial mortgage hardly makes you that wealthy! The principle is that any parent should contribute, it doesn't matter how much the RP earns, and the fact that you aren't entitled to benefits over a threshold makes it more necessary for the NRP to contribute.

Stressedout10 · 21/07/2019 10:20

Wank not want