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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Child maintenance

224 replies

Pankhurst09 · 21/07/2019 00:39

So after reading a Facebook blog from ‘single mum still standing’ and living under the threat of maintenance payments being used as a means of control, and hearing the same issues/grievances from all my resident parent circle, I’m keen to know if the majority feel the same, or just some constructive feedback before I lobby my MP. Thanks in advance.

*This is my experience within the Scottish system.

After reading the very insightful post about maintenance from “Single Mum Still Standing” and the fantastic top comment from Phil Dooner and receiving yet another threat about maintenance, it really angers and saddens me that this country does not have systems in place to allow a fair and adequate system of control for the care of, and fair maintenance payments towards children after separation and divorce.

I have been separated for four years but still after all this time it comes back to maintenance and threats, if I ‘step out of line’

Even if the non resident parent makes a very decent wage but works under a limited company any maintenance payments would only be based on what has been declared. I’ve had regular threats to stop payments and this has happened in the past.

This needs to stop! It’s not just about maintenance payments, it’s about fairness and decency and a just society and actually teaching our children accountability. You have a child, you care for them, regardless of any other factor, they should be priority, period.

What are we teaching children right now? The resident parent must provide all, be all, expect nothing, unless the non resident parent is honest, moral, decent enough, can be bothered to provide.

The system as it stands says;

Resident parent it’s YOUR child, BUT when it comes to rights and access, it’s both ‘YOUR’ child/children, therefore if the non resident parent decides not to pay for whatever reason they deem fit, there’s not one thing you can do about it.

Non resident parent wants 50/50 access ‘YOUR’ child could well be subject to this growing ‘trend’ in court systems. Non resident parent wants to return after many days, weeks, years of not being present ‘YOUR’ child most probably will be forced into contact. Non resident parent has committed a crime? even towards the resident parent! Still a good chance ‘YOUR’ child will still have to endure contact. ‘YOUR’ child has to move house, schools, quit groups, have less than they would have had, not have what their peers have, not participate in the same clubs, not have the same life chances and opportunities? because the non resident parent just decides not to pay towards ‘YOUR’ child, tough, it’s actually YOUR child, and they can walk away from every last bit of responsibility if they so choose.

Resident parent, ensure you have a safe place to stay, food on the table, school clothes, trip money, activities, transport, homework done, emotional care, hygiene, clean beds, clean clothes, good communication with schools, groups, non resident parents (in fact be their PA because it’s your fault if they’re not kept up to date), Keep your own calendar up to date, make play dates, read parenting information, discuss well being, attend events, parents evenings and plays and sports days, do school runs and drop offs, attend doctors and dentists, make Halloween costumes and complete projects, make packed lunches and diners, and of course WORK! But understand your work isn’t important, the non resident parent’s work is much more important and you also need to source childcare and that is your responsibility. Child is ill... that’s your responsibility, not the non resident parent, and there is absolutely, not one iota of responsibility that they need to take, and there is absolutely not one iota of accountability enforced.

Resident parent however, if you don’t/can’t be bothered to provide?. have another family and can’t be bothered with your children from your first relationship? lose your job and can’t feed your children, self employed and choose not to declare all of your earnings and spend the majority on yourself to the detriment of your child’s well being?decide not to care adequately or communicate about your child because of another partner,Just don’t bother to turn up for your child?... ABANDONMENT and NEGLECT. And we will not just advocate those rights for your child and non resident parent, we will enforce them.

So, what is this teaching OUR children? Future generations? And where is the fairness or balance in this system?

The government needs to take this seriously when it comes to enforcing adequate care of OUR children. They are keen to promote a country that is child centred. There is nothing child centred in this archaic, toothless system. Non resident parents are afforded all the rights of a resident parent with zero responsibility. A system that actually allows and fosters control and abuse.

Other countries such as America or Australia have powers to arrest wages. In our tax system that can quite easily persecute a single parent that hasn’t declared their exact earnings or who can wipe out a local business with investigations I find it very hard to understand how they can’t ensure EVERY non resident parent is paying the pitiful bare minimum that the government suggests.

This bare minimum (if you’re lucky, equates to pounds a day) let’s see any of you non resident parents bring up well rounded, well adjusted individuals that deserve all the life chances that any child deserves whether their parents remained together or not, on a few pounds a day.

And this is where the Adverse Childhood Experiences really kick in, although the separation is traumatic, it’s the prolonged control and negativity this backward system allows.

It should be very simple, make non resident parents accountable just like resident parents. Have laws to enforce this, have a system with teeth, arrest wages, have a fair standard amount awarded to the resident parent at time of separation that is not controlled by the non resident parent, that does not allow any form of control, don’t allow abandonment, neglect, or abuse from either parent. It really shouldn’t be this difficult.

Us resident parents are tired, we’re tired of fighting a fight we shouldn’t have to. The majority want the best for our children, we want laws in place to protect our children and us and ultimately our country’s future.

This is a much bigger debate but to kick it off I’m asking for a petition to award an initial standard amount to the resident parent at the time of separation (in the exact same manner as government child tax payments would be awarded) that comes directly from the non resident parents wages/benefits/income. A payment that cannot be controlled or adjusted by the non resident parent and is not ‘means based’ on the non resident parent, what an utterly preposterous system in the first place. We have an actual living, little human being here, who needs care and food and much more, not a ridiculous tiny little percentage of an often made up income. Because at the moment you can have a situation where the non resident parent is required to pay nothing, so by this logic ‘their’ child should have nothing? How can this be right?
(*taking into consideration that many non resident parents are pushing for extra nights access only because this backward system then reduces the amount they have to pay, many are self employed and only declaring a little while their lifestyle tells a very different story, many straight up just don’t pay, many just pay when they want, many use maintenance payments as means of control for years and years and years, it should be a fair, standard amount in line with the cost of living and inflation, and bringing up a child in line with costs such as weekly/monthly food, childcare, health, activities, clothes, shoes, housing, utility bills, phone contracts, prior commitments etc... the list could go on) a fairer, further amount should then be based on what was a prior lifestyle for the children, house, area, clubs, activities, bills, and also future clubs, activities, needs, college/university etc... (not the now made up wage of the non resident parent).

The funny (or not so funny) thing is, I instantly imagined an outcry at that above list! “Phone contracts”?! And that is exactly where the problem lies...

The percentage of female judges in Scotland and the rest of the UK was sitting at an all time low when a study was conducted in 2016 (24% in Scotland and only 30% in England and Wales while the continent wide average was 51%)

Women struggle to get above 30% in the Scottish Parliament and 20% in the House of Lords...

Taken from gingerbread.org ...

In the UK “There are around 1.8 million single parents – they make up nearly a quarter of families with dependent children (i)”

“Around 90 per cent of single parents are women.”

I’ll let you draw your own conclusions from these statistics.

I’m proposing a standard amount at time of separation that is paid directly into the resident parents bank account at time of separation that comes directly from the non resident parents income without any penalty to the resident parent/child (as is the current system) and this must be enforceable by law with the same penalties as not paying your council tax etc... (again highlighting the importance being placed on our children in this current system)

It’s still not morally right or fair but it’s a start.

OP posts:
YouSayPotatoesISayVodka · 21/07/2019 12:16

Oh yes, Holly but I’m not shocked as she’s always been an utterly stupid cunt. My kids aren’t daft they know that it’s not true so all she’s done is ruin any relationship she might have otherwise had with them which makes me sad for my children as they are missing out in that respect.

Family court and the law isn’t fair in many respects. For example, I am expected to make my children available for contact with their dad (not an issue for me as long as I know my kids are safe with him- previous history of DV) because “the child has a right to a relationship with both parents” which of course they do. But. Only if both parents want that. A court order won’t force the NRP, usually the father, to have contact with their child if they decide to walk away.

Manclife1 · 21/07/2019 12:22

You only need to read the threads on MN to see it’s a very narrow view of a bigger issue. For example there’s an assumption that the woman will be the main carer. Not just for financial reasons but even when couples split due to the woman’s infidelity/poor behaviour there’s still the presumption the man will move out and leave the kids with her. Add to that the repeated mantra on here of “don’t put him on the birth certificate” and it’s starts to embed the belief then men are just sperm donors. Not to mention the “don’t want to pay for your kids, keep your pants on” often trotted out. Funny because you rarely hear “keep you knickers on” being used.

Just because some women get shafted by ex’s on the money front doesn’t mean that’s the case for everyone or that’s it’s even the norm. If you want to be the sole carer then expect to pay for it yourself and anything else is a bonus. Or, of you don’t want to run that risk keep your knickers on!

Musereader · 21/07/2019 12:32

I feel i may be coming across a bit harsh or smug but actually reality for me is i get more not being with nrp so what he provides is neither here nor there and like i said lived exprience from working on cms and other benefits. All benefits disregard cms.

Thing is what nrp pays has no bearing on what pwc wants or needs on benefits or not and you cant get blood from a stone or if he hides it from cms. The principle is that child deserves to be supported by both parents according to the parents means.

Every single punishment listed here and other suggestions i have heard i have never heard one that cms couldnt already do. When i was working there i could and did get credit repors showing what he had in uk bank accounts and we could and did get it direct from the bank either in lump sum or montly payments there were leins against property and i did refer people to court for removal of passport driving licence, it does affect credit rating and you cannot get a visa to certain countries eg australia if you have cms debt. Problem is people dont know this and dont think it happens. Especially when lifestyle is funded by new partner whos income does not factor in at all

IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 21/07/2019 12:42

Adults will have rent/mortgage costs, utility costs etc with or without children and both parents should have a home for the child. So childcare, food, clothes, hobbies, school trips should be funded equally by both as they are costs relating to the child and not the adults.

HollyGoLoudly1 · 21/07/2019 12:50

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

This is basically what I was trying to say but it took me 4 paragraphs! Need to ramble less Blush

JacquesHammer · 21/07/2019 12:52

Just because some women get shafted by ex’s on the money front doesn’t mean that’s the case for everyone or that’s it’s even the norm

The unpaid maintenance backlog was in the region of £3.8billion. Single parent families headed up by women are in the region of 88% of the total number.

Or, of you don’t want to run that risk keep your knickers on!

Or how about we say if you don’t want to run the risk of paying for you kid, keep your dick in your pants.

IceCreamAndCandyfloss · 21/07/2019 13:17

The unpaid maintenance backlog was in the region of £3.8 billion

Built up over 23 years. A shocking amount.

However, to give a fair comparison to show both sets don’t always pay, this is a quote re income support claimed by parents

Feb 18 360,000 claimed income support, at £73 at week that equals £1366560000 a year

It’s not just one gender that fails to financially provide.

If we are tackling parents not supporting children the whole picture needs considering not just one side.

BitchQueen90 · 21/07/2019 14:20

Income support isn't just claimed by single parents. It is also claimed by carers, and teens aged 16/17 who have had to leave their parents' home.

There is nothing wrong with being on income support when the need arises. I had to do it when I left my ex husband as I wasn't working at the time. I don't feel bad about it in any way, shape or form.

InTheHeatofLisbon · 21/07/2019 14:22

This reply has been deleted

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maiafawnly · 21/07/2019 14:24

I recently found out my ex, who is on a zero rate due to no taxable income, was, infact, working all of last year. I gave this information to CMS. As i handed this information over after the 30 day window from our annual review. He owes nothing. All of his earnings from last year are disregarded. How is that a fair system?

Pankhurst09 · 21/07/2019 14:34

Intheheatoflisbon well said
Maiafawnly it’s not fair

OP posts:
CanILeavenowplease · 21/07/2019 15:28

Add to that the repeated mantra on here of “don’t put him on the birth certificate” and it’s starts to embed the belief then men are just sperm donors. Not to mention the “don’t want to pay for your kids, keep your pants on” often trotted out. Funny because you rarely hear “keep you knickers on” being used

It is not up to the RP to ‘put him on the birth certificate’. Unmarried, you don’t have that right. It requires the NRP to turn up to the appointment (although I understand he might not be told about it). Yes, men need to keep it in their trousers if they don’t want children. Women absolutely can do the same thing. But once you start having sex, you are both need to face the consequences. Unfortunately, our ire is too often aimed at the RP who has literally been left holding the baby rather than the NRP who gets to play the game however they see fit.

Nat6999 · 21/07/2019 16:48

I'm a single parent, have been since ds was 6. We went to court & the decision was that exh had ds EOW & 2 nights a week after school until bed time. I always let exh have extra time if he wanted it & bent over backwards to maintain ds relationship with him, doing pick ups & drop offs all the time despite exh owning & driving a car. At the time we divorced I was working, exh was on benefits due to being disabled, after paying rent & Bill's, I had £50 a week to feed & clothe both of us, exh received £300 a week benefits, plus had all his rent & council tax paid, I went through the CSA & was awarded £5 a week taken directly from exh benefits, this meant exh had £295 to pay his bills & live on a week, he didn't contribute to pay for school clothes, shoes etc, I was expected to provide clothes for ds to keep at dad's because "I got child benefit to pay for them" It was me who did all the school stuff, parents evenings, homework, doctors & dentist appointments, haircuts, shopping for new shoes, while exh got to play Disney dad EOW, me who was up in the night when ds was ill. As ds got older I let him take the lead on when he chose to see his dad, if he wanted to go every weekend, I let him, exh was moaning that he hadn't enough money to buy food for ds, I sent him with a food shop. Ds is 15 now & has decided he doesn't want to see his dad any more, he realised that the parent who had his back all the time was me, I haven't tried to influence his views at all, just carried on doing what i always have done.

MrsxRocky · 21/07/2019 16:55

Yes but a lot do the time these single mums aren't actually providing for their kids are they. The government are.
So they've chosen to leave partner majority of time and then live rent subsidised and tax credits and expect ex to pay quite a percentage of his earnings whilst he has no such support for his living. He has to full support himself as well as child.
Single mothers are not struggling what's so ever.
I was one for 5 years and I was the best off financially I've ever been.
I worked part time, paid no rent or c tax and had quite a lot in tax credits.
I could easily have claimed 200 odd a month off ex but wouldn't have even needed the money.
The system is a joke and just encourages lack of work and to have kids single.
I'm now married and working full time and our outgoings are tripled if not more.
Pay his ex quite a lot of money and she's off out on town every other weekend plastered and going on holidays couple times a year.
Works part time and pays no rent etc.

JacquesHammer · 21/07/2019 16:58

MrsxRocky

That’s quite the chip on your shoulder.

Poppyseed87 · 21/07/2019 17:09

Some of these comments really make me quite angry. Not all Dads are deadbeats who don't pay or look after their children. My DH has two children from a previous marriage and he adores them. He spent £15k taking his ex to court for a contact order so that he could have more time with them. He pays CSA and we also buy them a whole wardrobe of clothes, school uniform, pay for extra curricular activities, take them on holiday every year etc etc etc. The list is endless really! Yet we are going back to court again in a few weeks over contact because his ex is bat shit crazy.

I agree the whole system is wrong but some fathers have to fight harder to be a part of their children's lives. Some people really should forget the stereotypes and realise that it works two ways and there should be more equality all round.

InTheHeatofLisbon · 21/07/2019 17:09

Yes but a lot do the time these single mums aren't actually providing for their kids are they. The government are

You can just about play benefit bashing bingo full house with your post. You forgot the flat screen telly and the goat.

BitchQueen90 · 21/07/2019 17:11

MrsxRocky if you were SO much better off before and it's SO easy financially to be a single mum why did you get married?

Bit hypocritical as well to be snidey about your partner's ex when you were doing the same thing as her. And good on her for expecting her ex to provide for his kids. You're not morally superior for not chasing your ex for maintenance.

Angrybird123 · 21/07/2019 17:39

Mrs Rocky.. Seriously? A fairly important difference is that the RP is caring for the child, so if its younger than about 11 they are looking at significant childcare costs if they work full time, something EOW NRPs don't have to worry about. Quite the contrary.. They can work extra shifts, late nights, early finishes with no impact at all. Especially if its undeclared cash in hand.
I did not leave my ex, he left me and 2dcs for ow. He fought long, hard and expensively to win the right to only pay the minimum maintenance. I work 40 hrs a week with serious logistical issues around childcare. His income gives him over 1k per month more to play with than me and he gets to come and go as he pleases 26 days a month. To suggest that the system is fair, or that single mothers who rely on benefits because the cost of childcare is prohibitive is akin to non paying fathers is laughable.

hsegfiugseskufh · 21/07/2019 18:29

I did not leave my ex, he left me and 2dcs for ow

No. He left you for her. He didnt leave your kids.

All this whining about childcare - how many of you offered 50/50 shared care or for the other parent to be rp?

It doesnt work for everyone but 50/50 should be the starting point in negotiations. Not living with mum and seeing dad eow. It clearly doesnt work for many people.

InTheHeatofLisbon · 21/07/2019 18:34

JoanMavisIcecreamGirl and if the NRP doesn't want 50/50???

XH moved over an hour away, took me to court for his "rights" and promptly decided he only actually wanted half of the time he was given by the court. So he's EOW by his own choice, has no idea what school DS1 is at, and has never contributed in any way towards his life.

But aye, let's tar all the parents who actually bother to put their children first with the same brush eh? Hmm

hsegfiugseskufh · 21/07/2019 18:38

I said negotiate from there..... read.....

Im not tarring anyone with any brushes thanks.

InTheHeatofLisbon · 21/07/2019 18:40

All this whining about childcare

Yes you fucking are.

how many of you offered 50/50 shared care or for the other parent to be rp?

Why is it up to the mother to offer anything? Why isn't it up to the NRP to ask, or provide childcare?

SeaSidePebbles · 21/07/2019 18:41

Joan, I expected it. He laughed in my face and asked how do I think is he going to work around DD, he’s got a job to go to. No, he can’t have her 50-50.
Right, do you want her EOW? No, because I might have stuff on, I’ll let you know when I can have her.
We agreed to alternate her bday and Christmas. Only to be told a few months back that he finds it a bit much, Christmas AND bday, can’t he just choose one of them, he’ll let me know which?

InTheHeatofLisbon · 21/07/2019 18:45

No. He left you for her. He didnt leave your kids

Looks like you were well wide of the mark there eh?

I hope you'll be gracious enough to apologise for being so shitty with SeaSide.;

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