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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

I am terrified of the climate emergency but more terrified by how ambivalent others seem to be about it!

451 replies

CopperPatch · 20/07/2019 10:31

Just that really, I see people sharing things on social media, commenting on threads, talking about climate change etc but actually changing their lives very, very little - or finding ways to justify not taking action.... it is not scaremongering, it is not a fear project, our planet will no longer sustain human life because of us but so, so many people seem to not care, or only care on a surface level - great click bait but changing their lives in any way seems a step to far. Yes we need wide-scale political and economic shifts but we also need every day action from every day people - and that is EVERYONE'S responsibility!!!! AIBU to expect more of everyone?!

OP posts:
Cosentyx · 25/07/2019 18:54

Ok, you don't want to give up your car.

Yeah, really easy for people in rural areas who work shifts to do, they should 'just move' (with no money, no guarantor, no job to go to, unable to afford the rents in urban areas) Hmm. It's not a question of wanting to for a lot of people.

Idontwanttotalk · 25/07/2019 19:02

The government need to put the onus onto manufacturers, wholesalers and retailers and give them a short target date for eliminating plastics.

We need to go back to the days of paper bags and proper shopping bags. No-one needs their apples etc in polystyrene or plastic shaped containers and then in a cellophane sealed wrapper. No-one needs Easter eggs in foil and then inside a huge cardboard container.

If black microwavable containers that ready meals come in can't be recycled everywhere, ban their use. Ban plastic plant pots that aren't recyclable.
Wrap fast foods (if we must have them) in paper.

What the heck did we do in 'the olden days' for toiletries and cleaning products? Was it just that far less existed?

Bring back returnable glass bottles for soft drinks, beer, wine, juice and milk.

Can't we redevelop our textile industry and cut down on imports of synthetic clothes from the other side of the world.

Want less of everything.

Hopefully Boris Johnson's dad will soon be in his ear about his passion for the environment. He said on The One Show last night that he wants the Brazilian leader to be contacted and told to stop decimating the Rain Forest. I presume that goes for other South American countries too.

Each individual is too small to make a big enough difference. We probably all know someone who can't even be bothered to recycle.

Maybe natural disasters are becoming more frequent as a way of culling the population?

Idontwanttotalk · 25/07/2019 19:09

"Yeah, really easy for people in rural areas who work shifts to do, they should 'just move' (with no money, no guarantor, no job to go to, unable to afford the rents in urban areas) hmm. It's not a question of wanting to for a lot of people."

This is how towns came about though isn't it? People had to move if they wanted jobs. My DF moved to the Midlands from the North East because his job there wouldn't sustain a wife and family.

I do wonder what would happen if we all stopped eating meat as some suggest. Would we keep cows for milk, would they still not excrete gases. What about sheep - would our children's children never get to see lambs in the fields in spring?1

Hithere12 · 25/07/2019 19:47

What about sheep - would our children's children never get to see lambs in the fields in spring?1

Oh goodness me! Tilly won’t be able to pet the lambs! Golly jee what will we do? 😱

Hithere12 · 25/07/2019 19:48

This is how towns came about though isn't it? People had to move if they wanted jobs. My DF moved to the Midlands from the North East because his job there wouldn't sustain a wife and family

Yeah just move! It’s THAT EASY! It’s not like we have chronic housing shorten or anything.

Hithere12 · 25/07/2019 19:48

*shortage

mindproject · 25/07/2019 21:11

Shortstuff99 - are you being serious? 13k is considered working poor. You want me to give away my pittance so we no longer eat or pay bills? I don't understand why you would write that. We are not very wealthy, but we are managing. You sound like a bully.

Juancornetto · 25/07/2019 21:35

I do sometimes suffer from real eco anxiety but it doesn't help in any way so I'm trying to focus on the positives and what progress is being made and what we can do.

YABU to expect more of everyone (in Britain) We do have an amazing standard of living, one of the best in the world. Most ordinary people have struggles and worries but most of us do have a roof over our heads, enough food and enough heat. This is more than most people have had in human history. But there are people who struggle to get by; who live from payday to payday and who spend all their waking time working and don't have the time to forgo convenience for the sake of the planet. They shouldn't feel the burden of having to make the changes. And I feel that often the biggest changes we can make (less processed food, reusable nappies, 1 car households) have a disproportionate impact on women.

So many of us do consume far too much though and everything we buy increases our carbon footprint or adds some pollution to the earth. Life's changed so much from when I was a kid in the 80's. For so many there's now an expectation that households should have 2+ newish cars, kitchens and bathrooms should be updated every 10 years, more than one foreign holiday every year and whatever processed food we want. So different to what we grew up with. A new B&M opened near me recently, I walked round it the other day and it just has so much unnecessary crap. Most of which will be bought, discarded and forgotten about within a year.

As a county our impact on the climate is small. On a per capita basis it's probably one of the highest in the world. Previous posters have mentioned the fact that India and China have a big impact - but combined they include nearly half the world's population. On a per capita basis, China's emissions are less than half the US. The mindset that what I do doesn't have enough impact to make a difference so I'm not going to do everything is infuriating. No point doing anything then - give up donating to charity, paying taxes, start shoplifting and flytipping if that's the case. Except if everyone did it, life would be pretty shit. People who fly abroad on holiday more than once a year and drive a 4 x 4 but have an eco coffee cup should probably stop and think about how they could sacrifice a bit more.

And we're making these choices on behalf of the people who will be most impacted by climate change. The average person in Bangladesh is contributing far less to the problem that we are but will be far more impacted - the Marshall Islands representative to the UN described the potential crisis as climate genocide.

I'm being optimistic and believing that the tide of consumerism is slowly changing. Attitudes have shifted hugely in the past year and will continue to do so. Humans have flourished as a species because we're creative, adaptable and resourceful. As women get more power and more access to education and contraception, fertility levels will fall and the world's population will start to level off. As more governments declare climate emergencies, more trees will be planted and they will capture more carbon and slow the sixth mass extinction, transport options will become more sustainable and hopefully communities will be planned to be more liveable so people don't feel the need to drive everywhere. Technology will become cleaner and more efficient - I read an article about hydrogen trains in Germany today that gives me real hope. I hope Refuse, Reduce, Reuse and Recycle will become more common and the obsession with new stuff will abate. Our grandparents and parents got by with far less than we have and I don't think we can say we're happier because we have more stuff.

Rambling....life will change vastly. It must. Earth can't sustain our way of life as it is. But humans will be able to avert the crisis before it's too late and to do it in a way that means civilization won't end, life will just look very different in 100 year's time - as it should.

Heshimiracle · 25/07/2019 22:15

Excellent post Juan

As for lambs skipping in the fields ....🤦

EdtheBear · 25/07/2019 23:01

Yes towns came about because of trade but so much work is now centralised and out of town. That the days of living walking distance to work are now well and truely behind us.

Even if you could get a house near your current employer, what does that do to your partner and their work place?

Not to mention if you then decided to look for work elsewhere are you moving house too?

What about construction workers? By the very nature of their work they need to go to where the work is, are they meant to move house every few months every time they move site?

Not every where like the South East with fab public transport systems.

Shortstuff99 · 26/07/2019 00:30

- are you being serious? 13k is considered working poor. You want me to give away my pittance

£13k a pittance? You’re comparatively one of the wealthiest people on the planet. Someone in Afghanistan would need to work for 33 years to earn that much but they wouldn’t live long enough as they have no NHS ( or AHS)

Has it ever occurred to the Mumsnet wealth gap complainers, how wealthy you are actually are globally? Add in all the services and benefits of course as so few countries have them. Because if you care about equality what about the poorest in the world. Why would you limit your concern to the border of your country if you care about fairness? Fairness has no borders!

If you can earn £13k, go and live in a tent somewhere in the UK and give 70% of what you earn to people in a refugee camp. You’d presumably be happy with ‘the rich’ paying 70% tax after all and wouldn’t want to be a hypocrite now? You’ll still be more comfortable than the people you’re helping. Or is wealth redistribution etc only for people earning more than you.

CendrillonSings · 26/07/2019 02:52

Do you really think we are more important than bees?

A priceless question! Antihumanism really is a thing, it seems.

When bees develop advanced language, technology, science, art, and literature I’ll begin to consider their importance relative to human beings.

Or I would, if I weren’t too busy running away from them in abject horror! Shock

Banangana · 26/07/2019 03:16

@CendrillonSings

You've taken that posters question out of context. They were clearly alluding to the fact that bees are an important part of the food chain and responsible for around one third of the food we eat. Without them, we humans (with our advanced language, technology, science and art) can expect widespread economic hardship and famine, at least in the short term.

Heshimiracle · 26/07/2019 06:56

Yes actually bees are far more important than our art and literature all of which are very nice but artificial constructs which are totally meaningless in reality. We are so far removed from nature these days, I honestly think people imagine it's there either for our amusement or exploitation.

Kazzyhoward · 26/07/2019 07:02

This is how towns came about though isn't it? People had to move if they wanted jobs. My DF moved to the Midlands from the North East because his job there wouldn't sustain a wife and family.

Population was much lower back then. There are millions of people living in rural areas. The bigger towns and cities are already congested and infrastructure struggles to cope. They can't absorb millions more. The answer is the opposite - to get people out of the congested cities, reduce commuting, make more use of rural areas with unused infrastructure, get people working locally again, a return to smaller regional offices, more home-working etc.

Kazzyhoward · 26/07/2019 07:05

£13k a pittance? You’re comparatively one of the wealthiest people on the planet.

But costs are also much lower in the places where wages are much lower. You have to compare the whole picture. People earning smaller amounts in third world countries won't be paying several hundred pounds per month for a tiny one bed flat or a pound for a loaf of bread.

adaline · 26/07/2019 07:12

This is how towns came about though isn't it? People had to move if they wanted jobs.

Comments like this make me laugh. Living in towns is expensive! Moving to our nearest town would more than double our mortgage costs - it's cheaper to live rurally and run two cars.

Also moving to the nearest town doesn't work when your partner works in the opposite direction to you. We could move to where I work, pay double (or more) in housing costs and DH's commuting time would double or treble. We'd still need a car because said town doesn't have a train station or transport links to where DH's job is based.

It must be nice to live in a world where you can afford to just move house at the drop of a hat, where you live with perfect transport links and where everyone in the house works within five minutes of each other too!

Oblomov19 · 26/07/2019 07:15

Small changes are good. Small households trying helps.

But where is the Leadership? But the big companies, are not cutting back, cutting down on burning fuels, replacing forests.

Most of the plastic in our seas come from Far East: who is holding China, to account?

There is very little guidelines and details. Everything is so vague. How are we supposed to hold our Government (and others) to account?

I'd prefer if someone made a list of .... 20 or 30 top contributors, and said by 2020, 2030 each one needs reducing by 2%, 5% etc.

Then we'd have some data.

Conkeee · 26/07/2019 07:28

shortstuff99

Completely agree with everything you’ve been saying.

Cerseilannisterinthesnow · 26/07/2019 07:33

But moving people out of towns into rural areas then goes back to the issue of building houses to home them, I live rurally and there isn’t that many homes already here for a mass move of people from towns/cities so that means more building over green space?

Also I’ve already said that I use my car a lot because I love rurally and work in community nursing, do those people who can’t get to the practice nurse just not get seen then? Or should I get a bike and see 1 patient per day as the area I cover is huge? It’s not an easy answer

Xenia · 26/07/2019 07:33

Since I was about 7 or 8 I have known humans were only ever going to be on a planet for a very short period (in historical terms), so whilst it is awful people may suffer during the transition back to how it usually is (i.e. no humans) it is not a massive surprise for most people that we may not survive surely and I am not so arrogant to suggest humans are better than dogs or bacteria or worms.

However I do suggest people try not to waste resources if they can (and all need to remember you do nothing worse fo rthe planet than having a baby so sadly the single childless man with 5 dirty cars is an eco hero compared to loving mothers with children dressed in hemp drinking water from the garden well.

Snowy111 · 26/07/2019 07:36

Ovlomov isn’t that what’s happening anyway? Google and you will find various league tables. Countries have their climate targets. But who’s going to make America stick to theirs?

And who votes for a political party who says “you need to fly less, eat less variety, buy less stuff”.

There are a lot of people with a conscience in this country, but far more who’s major interest in life is what is happening on Love island.

It’s very scary.

Heshimiracle · 26/07/2019 08:05

It's very scary thats for sure. We are a blip though, I agree with Xenia

Oblomov19 · 26/07/2019 08:10

Snowy, yes I've seen a few snippets and a couple of stats, but really it needs a huge organisation .....??

Like .....WHO to organise it all. Present a simple list we could all understand:

With data, stats and targets.

Simplistically:

Here are the 10 worst contributors..... make your Government act.

Here are the 10 best things you can do, in your household.

Kazzyhoward · 26/07/2019 08:22

But moving people out of towns into rural areas then goes back to the issue of building houses to home them, I live rurally and there isn’t that many homes already here for a mass move of people from towns/cities so that means more building over green space?

Firstly, there are massive building projects in all major cities anyway, so why not build those in smaller towns and cities, and more rural areas instead.

Secondly, I'm talking rural, not remote. Millions of people live in "rural" areas which includes small towns and large villages. There's usually lots of "brownfield" sites that could be developed for housing without impacting on green space. Fair enough that people wouldn't want a housing estate in a picturesque valley, but what about derelict factory and industrial sites? My point is that rural areas, towns and smaller cities are generally run down these days, yet some have streets of empty properties. Employers etc need to be incentivised to start to move out of London again and open smaller/regional branches/offices/works like they always used to have before centralisation and London-centricity.

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