I am terrified of the climate emergency but more terrified by how ambivalent others seem to be about it!

[CopperPatch]

Just that really, I see people sharing things on social media, commenting on threads, talking about climate change etc but actually changing their lives very, very little - or finding ways to justify not taking action.... it is not scaremongering, it is not a fear project, our planet will no longer sustain human life because of us but so, so many people seem to not care, or only care on a surface level - great click bait but changing their lives in any way seems a step to far. Yes we need wide-scale political and economic shifts but we also need every day action from every day people - and that is EVERYONE'S responsibility!!!! AIBU to expect more of everyone?!

Good try Shortstuff but as I said I don't engage, sorry.

We've cut down from 3 to one foreign holiday a year
Have given up meat and only eat fish once a week so are virtually vegetarian now.
I stopped buying new things a couple of years ago including my own clothes everything I get is off eBay, that covers household goods.
Reuse water as much as possible.

It's all a fucking drop in the ocean I know, to little, too late.

Good try Shortstuff but as I said I don't engage, sorry.

Save your apology for the people missing out on your insightful scientific knowledge. If you care so much you’d make the effort. Sorry.

Change starts with government. Really. We should all be voting green every single time.

We're still waiting for your evidence

How about the Independent article I posted above that shows how incredibly harmful rice farming is, Bananarama?

We should all be voting green every single time

I’m afraid the Green Party are green only in name and the movement are in fact classic watermelons.

I did like Natalie Bennett’s plan to build 500,000 houses for £25 each on LBC, the very essence of a credible electoral force

Climate change deniers are like flat-earthers imv, not worth engaging with.

This statement uses the language of religious ideology and always indicates to me that the speaker doesn’t have a very well-rounded understanding of this issue.

I used to feel quite panicked about climate change. But the more I’ve looked into it - and gone out of my way to find scientific perspectives which raise questions about the prevailing orthodoxy of “the planet is warming and we’re all going to die”, the less I worry.

Since starting work in academia, and understanding how you obtain funding for research, I’ve become even more doubtful.

There’s a strange anti-humanism on this thread, and I see this attitude all over the place in the modern environmental movement. People now totally take for granted our astonishing achievement in taming our environment, in finding remarkable new ways to access and use energy. It’s become fashionable to castigate fossil fuels but the truth is that none of us would last a week without them and that everything we do in our unbelievably comfortable lives is as a result of human ingenuity. Why have we forgotten this?

It’s such a complex issue and there are no quick and easy solutions (despite what a PP appears to have read in a book). In a way we are privileged to even have the luxury of worrying about environmental issues. Many people in the developing world don’t have anything like that luxury - they just desperately need access to cheap, efficient energy, and solar panels ain’t going to do it. Child mortality rates decline as a country’s CO2 output increases. Do you want to deny them their potential to reach our standards of living?

Yeah, but what can we do otherwise?
Nothing you originally do is going to change anything. The biggest change in behaviour I've seen in my lifetime has been the quitting of fags, which has been utterly amazing to see. This is now socially unacceptable but only became use of be governments firm stance against it. Similarly, the government needs to discourage all our consumerist behaviours, which it could really do if it wanted to, but they won't of course because of the economic ramifications.

I feel really sad watching the moon landings the other night and wondering how we could pull together for that but not to save the planet that we're on.

I feel really sad watching the moon landings the other night and wondering how we could pull together for that but not to save the planet that we're on.

What does that even mean? Is your idea of pulling together, regressing the developing world to pre industrial levels of power, health and education? Because that’s what would happen if you took away their power and cheap imports etc. Whilst obviously you’d still be able to enjoy your soy latte

Do you want to deny them their potential to reach our standards of living?

But that's exactly what we want. I want my children and eventual grandchildren to have a long, happy and fulfilled life without my generation having turned their habitat into a hostile plastic ridden furnace. I just don't think that the mindless overconsumption now is a basis for a happy fulfilled potential.

You say we have learned to tame our environment, I say we have learned to exploit it in the short term without any regard for the long term damage we are inflicting, the way they tame performing animals, with abuse.

Are we privileged to worry about it? Are the Amazon tribes who are losing their habitat privileged? Are the thousands who died from the last European heatwave privileged? Are the many children here in London who have developed asthma and other breathing difficulties because of air pollution privileged?

Child mortality rates decline as a country’s CO2 output increases

At the same time asthma deaths have risen by 25% because of air pollution. Are we privileged to worry about that too?

@shortstuff69 WTF, soy lattes? Really? It's been years since I bought a takeaway drink thanks. Partly because of the waste.

Its quite clear what I'm saying, globally, there is a lack of cooperation/motivation to tackle climate change between governments and also between us as individuals. As is evidenced by this thread, sadly.

How about the Independent article I posted above that shows how incredibly harmful rice farming is, Bananarama?

I'm asking for the evidence to back up your claim that humans activity is not responsible for the warming of the planet and some sources to confirm that there is a fast growing scientific consensus against man made climate change.

It's been years since I bought a takeaway drink thanks. Partly because of the waste.

Buy a reusable cup? Encourage some sustainability? I wonder what the other hinted-at contributory factors are though. Probably something to do with The Conservative Party at a guess.

I'm asking for the evidence to back up your claim that humans activity is not responsible for the warming of the planet and some sources to confirm that there is a fast growing scientific consensus against man made climate change.

Here you go:

www.askjeeves.com

I feel really sad watching the moon landings the other night and wondering how we could pull together for that but not to save the planet that we're on.

Gosh, I have just the opposite perspective. I look at that and feel amazed at the human ingenuity that got us there and the creativity that will find a way through the problems we face.

It’s an interesting example though and also worth remembering that the ingenuity behind the moon landings was fuelled by competition and a massive sense of urgency - beating the Russians at the height of the Cold War. That human drive to compete, win, expand, explore - which I’m sure many on this thread would deplore as having landed us in this “mess” (and I’m still not quite sure what exactly the mess is)- will see us through.

Im not trying to be a Pollyanna - just to illustrate that there has to be a balance in this discussion and that the situation is massively complex. Anxiety and panic at an individual, local or global level will not help. Greta Thunberg (whom I view as a vulnerable and exploited child) telling other children to panic does not help.
Policy decisions made on the basis of pleasing a panicking pressure group will not be sensible, measured policy decisions. Frankly I still haven’t got over being advised to buy a diesel car only to find out it’s a worse polluter than my previous car!

Any steps taken have to be moderate and deeply considered because all actions have an equal and opposite reaction. A radical Green New Deal is not the solution. Allowing the government to put up taxes in the name of the environment is bizarrely naive. We need to keep the debate broad and open to considering different perspectives.

Greta is an exploited child, end of.

Not sure why you need to be so aggressive, shortstuff. Extrapolating that I'm some Tory millennial hyorocrite is bizarre. Wildly off the mark too, love.

There no need for defensiveness, it's quite clear the state of the planet is a mess, not sure why it needs to be such a divisive and emotive issue. I would have thought we all have the same interests in protecting future generations?

@jillyhilly yes, partly I feel that too although mainly WHY are we still scrapping about it instead of acting? HOW can it be so far down the list or priorities on a governmental level?

Not sure why you need to be so aggressive

Because I am baking in the heat I can’t think. Leather sofas no good in heatwave.

Change starts with government. Really. We should all be voting green every single time.

No way! Their default setting is policies that will make the poor even poorer. Not interested in their middle class angst making life harder for those who struggle most already.

Excellent post Jillyhilly.

I always notice on these threads The strong anti-human slant which is why I personally won't engage as it would be largely futile as I Would be trying to converse with people with a completely different worldview to me.

No, I'm not terrified (not even slightly worried) and I believe humans are the most important 'thing' on this planet. Way more important than Polar bears etc

That doesn't mean though that I don't think we should take care of nature rather than destroy or that I don't recycle pretty much everything possible and I don't buy 'stuff' for the sake of it but I am a million miles away from those who always crop up on these threads hysterically telling people to stop reproducing.

No, I'm not terrified (not even slightly worried) and I believe humans are the most important 'thing' on this planet. Way more important than Polar bears etc

I was under the impression that bees were important, if they go we go and all that. Do you really think we are more important than bees? Genuine question not a dig.

It’s not about the polar bears’ welfare though.

Polar bears are losing their habitat because the ice caps are melting. Ice caps melting will raise sea levels and bring flooding and will effect a change in the climate patterns all over the planet.

Biodiversity is diminishing, bees are dying, all this effects the food chain.

Saying ‘I don’t care about the polar bears, fuck the bastards, it’s people that matter is seriously short sighted.

The bears and us, we share the same planet. When we fuck it up then we will last longer than the bears, indeed, but not by long.

For all of you wringing your hands about this...have any of you voted green? They nay not be perfect but they are far better than the alternatives.

For all of you wringing your hands about this...have any of you voted green?

This is actually a good idea as a protest vote. They’ll never win but it’ll force politicians to act as they don’t want to lose votes, similarly to people voting UKIP made the conservatives have a referendum.

@MarriageOfPigaro
WHY are we still scrapping about it instead of acting? HOW can it be so far down the list or priorities on a governmental level?

I think it’s a good question, but I suppose I see things a bit differently. Firstly, the environmental debate is a classic example of a wicked problem in that (in my opinion) it has many potential causes, many different components, some good science, some dodgy science, many questions left unanswered, a lot of different opinions and innumerable stakeholders! As such, it seems to me that “acting” when a solution is not clear or straightforward is very difficult, because anything we do will have consequences that we can’t currently foresee. (All governments should maybe take this into consideration when making policy!).

So to take something small as an example, many people think that “plastic bags are a scourge and something should be done about them”. Ok, you might think, let’s ban plastic bags. But then what are people going to carry their stuff home in
If they forget their reusable bag? And what about the secondary use of disposing rubblish - plastic bags use much less plastic than binliners? And plastic is easier to transport than paper / cardboard, because it’s lighter, so maybe bags are actually more environmentally friendly than cardboard packaging? And what about the thousands of people are employed in plastic bag manufacturing firms - are they to lose their jobs and have to be supported by the state? How will that help anybody? Etc etc.

Ok that’s just a small example of a much much bigger picture. But we’re basically looking at that multiplied by thousands. These problems don’t have straightforward solutions that we can all agree on and act on. By their very nature they are virtually unsolvable.

Bur that doesn’t mean we don’t keep trying. The moon landings were an unsolvable problems once! I really think that consumer pressure and the business response is what will lead the way on responding to some of these problems. If you take the packaging issue, this is really a very new concern (new in terms of the history of human existence!). What do we think - 20 years of overpackaging? But we are already moving towards a solution because consumers are pushing industry to innovate and use less packaging.

I also think that in the UK we actually have quite a decent track record on the environment. I would think that the big polluters will be the developing nations - and as I said earlier I don’t see how we can deny them their right to achieve our standard of living.