To wonder how one would go about abolishing private schools?

[Chuffin]

If anyone is following the @abolisheton campaign, they state their aim is to integrate private schools into the public sector and hope this to be included in Labours next manifesto.

My children are about to start independent school, having had a terrible time for a whole host of reasons in their state primary.

Aside from the moral argument for or against private schools, I am very interested in whether it would be legally possible to abolish private schools and how this would happen? Would this even be feasible realistically?

Very interesting Fossi - thanks.

Yes i said in another thread this policy is the same as the brexit one. Appealing to people for all the wrong reasons, pretending the state will make a shedload of money out of it, and the fact that it would be impossible to implement.

Maybe they’d be better served sorting the state system first, including the divisive nature of state funded selection by faith.

I think this is ridiculous. My kids go to state btw but why abolish private school. State isn’t for everyone.

Labour are getting g more and more socialist by the week. I’m sick of it and can’t see myself ever voting for them if they follow this path. I’m a floating voter so can swing one way or other depending on policy but it seems labour want to punish anyone with a bit more cash or inheritance than they see as acceptable

I can’t see them getting in with this mantra

Agree madeye.

These Communist policies are simply going to alarm people. It’s frightening.

All the sniping about Tony Blair makes me very cross, particularly when it come to schools. He obviously made some poor decisions such as allowing academies etc. ( as does every politician) but state schools improved tremendously under his government. The NHS was a LOT better too with much shorter waiting lists.

And PLEASE don't give me a load of rubbish about how his government caused the 2008 crash with profligate spending. Yes he did allow a much less regulated environment for the banks which contributed to it but he had to appease the rabid Tories so prevalent in this country somehow and other countries did very similar.

I don't think banning private schools will work unfortunately but I can absolutely see why some people would want to do this.

@2boysandaCairn

Brilliant post. Spot on

Finally you can keep our ghettos, I certainly don't want the arrogant private school parents and kids anywhere near our lovely state educated kids. especially if they act like the ones we meet a rugby, who never turn up for training, but expect to play, only hang in their little groups, look down on any one else. Or the private school who won't allow our kids to use their changing rooms, so kids have to travel in sports kid to play them. Then once you manage to beat them, refuse to play the school again, because our kids are rude and brutal. But your the team who had players sent off

Oh come ON. Anecdote isn’t evidence.

as apart from A students, all research shows comprehensive kids out perform their privately educated cohorts with same grades, when at university.*

It wasn't just A students - it was A grade students as well, and the researchers failed to mention that 34% of privately educated students were achieving all A/A grades in their A levels (at the time). From what I can remember, only students studying for shorter length degrees were included in the research (3/4 year degrees) - medical students etc. were not included - neither were privately educated students who had sat IB exams instead of A levels - many of whom would also be high achieving students. Another point - 'partially selective' schools with 11+ exams were counted as 'comprehensive schools'.

The first line should read, 'as apart from A* students'

In case my post is confusing - comprehensive kids don't outperform the top third of privately educated kids at university.

There's a recent thread with a graph here

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/higher_education/3633418-State-v-Independent-for-degree-classification

Like private medicine , private schools are used by people who “ pay twice “ for the service of education their kids.
Leaving aside tax dodging / foreign nationals ( who , you would then have to some how chaege to educate in the state system just like when they use the nhs - oh I forgot the nhs fails in this regard 😂)

Leaving aside the above you will have cohort of kids (7% I think) who the state would need to educate for no extra money ( actually for less money as it now educated 93% or the kids on 100% of the budget so the money per child goes down ).

In my idle moments I have misty-eyed dream of a huge socialist uprising - drums beating, flags flying - in which the ruling classes are unseated and we live in a Red utopia.

< checks meds >

I keep hearing / reading that if private schools were abolished, it would mean more educated / invested people would send their children to state schools and would therefore raise standards. I find this really patronising.

In the same way that not all independent school parents are braying, Range Rover driving, Law Firm partners, not all state school parents are uninterested, uneducated and unengaged. Friends who send their children to state schools are clever - their children are clever and do very well. They aren’t sitting around, waiting for a load of independent school parents to come in and save the day.

In fact, I can imagine that it would put people’s backs up to have a bunch of new parents (many of whom didn’t want to be there in the first place) come into their school and demand changes.

If you read the research and proposals submitted by two different bodies proposing this in different ways, ylu'll realise neither of them are intending that the state own or shut down any private schools.

The intention is to abolish a two tier education system. One of the ways they sugest doing this is to insist that the government 'own' and allocate a % of places in private schools so they become more open to kids who wouldnotherwise never be able to attend.

Part of the reason for this is to refress the balance of who makes up future politicians, journalists, actors, writers etc.

Lord! Sorry for typos.

They aren’t sitting around, waiting for a load of independent school parents to come in and save the day

Indeed. I’m also not convinced many private school parents would be thrilled with being heralded as a potential saviour of an ailing education system!

There is no reason why those in charge of running schools would listen to this particular cohort of parents more than any other.
It is a very irritating argument, from all perspectives.

ErrolTheDragon

The graph doesn't reveal that over 34% of privately educated students achieved 3 A grades or better in their A levels (at the time of the study) versus 9% of state educated students who achieved that standard.

It doesn't distinguish between grammar school educated students/comprehensive school educated students either - or quality of university attended.

@Mad8NR1do you have a link to the proposals? All I can find is a very short, bullet pointed document. I’d like to read about this in more depth.

If have no issue with more places being open to children who would not ordinarily are d private schools. Independent schools could do more to actively seek out these children.

In my idle moments I have misty-eyed dream of a huge socialist uprising - drums beating, flags flying - in which the ruling classes are unseated and we live in a Red utopia.

Bezalelle can you enlarge on your dream? Will this be achieved without bloodshed? Or maybe that’s part of your dream

"One of the ways they sugest doing this is to insist that the government 'own' and allocate a % of places in private schools so they become more open to kids who wouldnotherwise never be able to attend."

So essentially re-creating the direct grant system, which was abolished in 1997 as one of the first acts of the incoming Labour government?

Clavinova - yes, I know, just thought if anyone was interested they could see the discussion on that thread and carry it on here rather than there perhaps.