Aibu to think is just luck or your parenting that makes your child behave ?

[havinganothertry]

I spent a day last weekend at a picnic with a big group of NCT friends and their partners/ husbands. All our kids are 3 ish now and some have littler ones too. All the kids played nicely ( around 20 kids) apart from two. These two have perfectly lovely parents, who did try to correct their behaviour to no avail. Is it a consistency or wording thing, as in maybe they don't correct them at home? These two children were shouty, grabby, rough and one kept taking other kids food or toys by snatching it away from them aggressively.

Now my DS is a bit of a wall flower these days, he's pretty shy. However he has not been prefect as around 1 yrs he went through a hitting phase. I had to follow him around all the time to stop him before he lashed out and tell him no instead of getting to chat with the other mums

So aibu to think these parents weren't parenting enough or was it just luck for the rest of us ? My DS doesn't get threats like no more tv if you do x at the moment, so I see 3 is a tricky age. However most of the kids would be in some sort of preschool so surely used to being around other and this bad behaviour from a few isn't allowed there ?

Biscuits:
"nature v nurture debate .....It was dispelled decades ago. "

Really?

Please link.

Have 2 dcs. Dd is 15 and ds is 5.

You couldn't have more 2 different dcs. Dd is an absolute angel, never been a bit of bother. Never answered back, never had to be told twice yada yada yada. Ds is Mr Bombastic. An absolute livewire, doesn't listen, is impulsive, a thrill seeker and a little gobshite.

Both parented the same.

However, I think if I wasn't strict and had really high behaviour expectations I think ds would unmanageable. I also see my nieces and nephews and the way they have been parented and how different they all are.

Bad parenting or weak, ineffective or couldn't give a shit parenting will probably land you with a little shit of a child. But you can be a good, strong effective parent and still end up with a bit of a thug.

It’s both. You need to parent the parent the boisterous, boundary pushing child different to the chilled out one who is discovering the world at more calmer pace.

It doesn’t matter how many times I patiently remind my 10 year old DS to share, to not snatch, to not hit. I still have to remind him the next day, because he has a learning disability.

Wish all the parents that tutted at him when he was 3 could of known that.

Doesn’t mean that i’ll stop parenting him though. He actually needs far more parenting, involving more research, creativity, more patience, more boundaries than many well behaved children with self congratulatory parents.

The people on this thread who believe it’s all to do with parenting are so weird .

Yeah I was good as gold, my brother was a little sht now he’s a big sht, parented the same way, access to the same opportunities, I’m just a nicer person. So I think a lot of it is personality, as a parent you do have scope to shape that though, but only so much. I have a one year old and I see the ‘grabby’ phase starting now with all of them, I get the vibe that parents think this is a little young to tell them off it’s not. My little boy gets a stern no and little talking though.

They're 3. I remember ds going through an awful phase at 3 - worse than terrible twos by a clear mile. He just did not listen and was incredibly impulsive. He still struggles to listen a bit, but you couldn't get a kinder, more sensitive 8yo. Lovely outgoing spirit and personality, liked by everyone he meets - children and adults.

Dd is 2.5. We had to leave a family restaurant last Friday, having to all intents and purposes seemed like the family from hell to various onlookers. She pushed other people's (older) children in thr play area, threw food across the table, did absolutely nothing we told her to. Dh and I bickered because of her awful behaviour and I ended up having to pick her up, hoist her over my shoulder and leave the restaurant with her kicking, screaming, pinching and biting me. Turns out she was feeling poorly.

I don't think you can spend an hour or two with parents and their children and get an accurate picture of their lives in general. I hope the people in the restaurant last Friday see it that way at least!

Ginger, I totally agree. Those children who have less compliant personalities or are not NT or have other challenges all parenting even more, not writing off as being 'beyond help' because if who they are. For those families, parenting might be harder, require more creativity (as you say) and see slower and smaller results, but for those children it's even more important because little steps count for an awful lot.

I don't agree with this idea which implicitly comes out in most posts that parenting is in itself a fixed thing which is part of the parents personality, as if it has no element of choice or flexibility. We might all have natural tendencies based on our own personalities and past experiences, but we can all and should all learn in our parenting and it should evolve in light of our experiences and because we actually think about it.

In this sense it's absolutley true that people with several children might need to parent them slightly differently - the values might be the same but the route slightly different, and to be rigid and say any differences must be due to only personality fails to recognise that every child is parented a bit differently. It's never exactly the same.

I don't think it's about being smug about having a well behaved child or crushed by having one that is more difficult for whatever reason. As parents,mtomg we all want to look back and think we had values we had decided we're important for our children as individuals and in society and that we tackled the task of parenting which is a great duty and joy and trial all at the same time, in response to our child and our values. It absolutely isn't a passive thing or just 'being' the parents we have somehow been born to be, but an active thing of being the people we are and actually doing something.....and that changes over time in light of our experiences and our children.

My kids were well behaved and polite as kids so I like to think it's the parenting. 😅. I was good at being consistent and I really tried hard to not be lazy and give in to them. Im also a calm person which I think helps a lot. My husband and I also have a mellow relationship. We never shout or scream at each other and are 'well behaved' as adults (polite, very honest, try and be decent people etc) so I think that sets a benchmark as to what reasonable behaviour is.

However, I also think it's personality too. My kids were calm and quiet so I think they were less likely to be naughty by nature. If I see a naughty kid I don't assume it's the parents fault. That's one thing that Mumsnet has really opened my eyes too. In fact, even if I see poor parenting I don't assume anything - I know there might be very good reasons for why it's happening such as a kid having aspergers or something . You just never know.

Those who think it's parenting are very lucky to not see the other side but i would say
The cheeky line pushers seem generally to be very bright. (Not that some placid dc arent also though)
I have observed several dc and the shy ones are often not line pushers as they dont want to stand out. And shyness is largely personality.
If it were all nurture books would work for every child, just as getting them to sleep through would.
I honestly think people who completely blame parenting are not too bright. As you look at kids, every one different (except identical ones obviously) all these eye colours/hair etc. Why would you be able to change personality more than physical things.
I do think parenting/environment can have a minor positive/negative effect. And you have to discipline them either way. But literally some kids do not want to be good. And as pp have said if that's the case it's very hard to influence them when they are out of sight if they are happy to take the consequences.

I also think medical conditions make a big difference as kids with asthma etc dont sleep well. Even tonsil/adenoid issues so they are ill.
I remember visiting friends they had a fire with no guard and stairs with no guard rail side. Their kid was fine and didnt touch when told previously once no. Other kids would be straight touching then falling off the stairs etc.
I think having children older apparently makes them less likely to follow the crowd.
For generations now we have had safety features to protect kids so ones who had traits of impulsivity etc may not previously have survived into adulthood to then pass on these genes. This is the same with kids with asthma etc without medicine i wouldnt have survived.

Um, what safety features have we had for generations Helix1244? I'm only one generation older than my children (teenagers) and the home I grew up in had no safety features. No stair gate, no socket covers, no cupboard locks and so on. They didn't exist, so I'm guessing my experience is not unique!

I’m mid 30s and those things certainly existed when I was growing up

Ok, so maybe for 1.5 generations we've had household safety features. I'm not sure that would be long enough to prove genetically significant!

There were stair gates in my house in the 1970's because I remember climbing over them when they were there for younger siblings.

www.newscientist.com/article/2210263-lifes-winners-think-success-was-earned-even-if-it-was-down-to-luck/?fbclid=IwAR0vqmB_pQbQlZ4hH1BPU8ysGl1k4QKGUJ6bN4axaFk_hZNb4BjTXp3XBSc

There's an immense amount of judgement out there. Don't add to it...

Love this quote, we should all take note.

I mean, if my twins had existed pre safety features, they may still be alive at nearly 3... I wouldn’t guarantee it though.

Without stairgates on every door, and the play pen that kept them safe when they were first mobile, I wouldn’t have even been able to use the toilet without serious risk. As it is, we’ve just had our first trip to A&E at 34 months, for a cut eyebrow that needed glue.

I imagine we would have been many more times without those things, but not having them wouldn’t change their behaviour.

I’m sure they wouldn’t have been diagnosed with ASD age 2 many years ago, but that wouldn’t have changed their behaviour either.

My boys are generally so well behaved despite their disabilities but that’s not because I’m a better parent than those who have kids who act out in public. I’m not the best parent in the world but I am trying my best. All the parents I know are trying their best. I’m sure there are parents who aren’t bothered and don’t care, but they’re in the minority.

I know how exhausting and soul destroying it is to have kids who need additional help and support - even more so if their behaviour causes judgement from parents who aren’t facing the same difficulties.

Um, what safety features have we had for generations Helix1244? I'm only one generation older than my children (teenagers) and the home I grew up in had no safety features. No stair gate, no socket covers, no cupboard locks and so on. They didn't exist, so I'm guessing my experience is not unique!

I'm in my 40s. We had stair gates and special catches on the kitchen cupboards so that nobody could open them children couldn't open them. Socket covers are unnecessary anyway.

I did correct myself and agree that some people had probably had safety features for 1.5 generations! Still not sure that is genetically significant though!

Oh, and I think it's a mixture.

DS was a lovely, laid back baby, hardly ever had a tantrum as a toddler and was generally a pleasure to be around. Until he hit 18mths and started hitting any other child he saw. We tried a few different strategies until we hit on one that worked with DS, and then he was fine.

We've had a various bits of bad behaviour since, some of it was obvious testing of boundaries where we would stand firm, some of it was driven by fear or anxiety about new situations and we'd try to understand and address those worries and help him manage his emotions.

I grew up with no safety features.
Only used a stair gate for DD(that was mostly to keep the dogs out) and a playpen. A combination of me being a SAHM, a small flat and a pretty good and understanding toddler made them unnecessary. Which was luck and circumstances rather than parenting.

I had five. Eldest was a lovely laid back baby, cheerful and well behaved but lively but became awful from age twelve. Seond cried 24/7 for nine months, rarely slept, wouldn't take 'no' for an answer but became a quiet and biddable tween and teenager. Third was easy, apart from a 'moment' when he was nine. Fourth, quiet easy child, terrible teenager. Fifth, never a moment's trouble, ever.

All same upbringing, very close in age (seven years from first to last). Not sure what that proves, but I think nature was very much in evidence, although I can't rule out parenting fails from time to time.

I think both nature and parenting play a role.

I was a very easy child to parent (behaviour-wise, not anxiety wise!) because I hated doing something wrong. Even as a toddler, my mum said I would watch my older DB do something first (e.g. walk on a wall). If he didn't get told off or hurt himself, I would copy him.

Even if I'd had very lax parents, I would have been well-behaved.

I struggle enormously with my 8 year old and have done since he was born. I'm not boasting, but numerous people (family, Drs, psychologists, school teachers) have told me that I am a good parent. DS is just very challenging. Get him on a good day and he is fabulous. Catch him at a bad moment and he appears like an overgrown toddler with his tantrums. (NT as far as we know).

I question my parenting a lot (I also have another DS who is a lot easier, which makes me feel better) but I'm only human and doing the best I can.

I also think a lot of parents on here are good parents or at the very least trying their best by the very virtue of being on a parenting website and caring enough to reflect on their parenting

One would go and stand on the line so they could be as close to getting over it without getting in trouble.

I have one of these. He would also scuff the line with his toe a few times and look at me after to see if he triggered the consequence yet 😂

Aria999 - love it! Same way they fall over and then pause and look around to see if anyone noticed before they start balling