to think that people have no idea how to apply for jobs?!

[myteenytinyteapot]

Just that really. Hiring for a senior admin person at the moment and have had hundreds of applications but honestly only about four shortlistable ones. I have had:

• CVs which include full-length glamour model style photographs of applicants
• CVs without cover letters when the advert clearly asks for a cover letter
• CVs and cover letters riddled with spelling and grammatical errors
• CVs which are 20 pages long and go into loads of detail about the hobbies and interests of the applicant. Also hardly anyone uses page numbers!
• Cover letters which are obviously just generic copied and pasted mass send out jobs - "I am writing to apply for the position advertised". Couldn't even be arsed to put in the job title!
• People applying who don't have any of the essential requirements listed

AIBU that I'm not surprised people can't get jobs if this is the general standard considered acceptable?!

This is making me go all I Daniel Blake. I find this whole process as described here sounds quite demeaning.

I’m a partner in a firm of solicitors which is lucky as after reading this I suspect I’m unemployable job-interview wise.

I can win business and win clients but I doubt I could do a forty section “person spec” or “describe my biggest weakness”

[idly musing]

What if we more generously aged people left dates off CVs altogether; and just listed jobs and responsibilities?

Would anyone even really notice or care?
It wouldn't work for everyone, but using my own career as example, I could have been working for 10 or 30 years.

I'm desperate for a better job abd the search is utterly depressing. I've got years of experience in retail, from area management to Saturday girl and I can't pass a supermarket questionnaire. Actually I did pass sainsburys but the most hours I could have was 12. There doesn't seem to be any jobs now around 25-30 hours. Before the kids, when I was in management there was always part timers who worked 25 odd hours a week, 5 days a week. That's all I want but it doesn't exist here now. What exists are 8 hour contracts, 12 hours or 16 hours. And they all want you to be flexible, and cover holidays, sickness etc. So it's impossible to get 2 jobs that fit in with each other. Not that I can get 2 jobs anyway.

And the application process, jesus christ. Last time I job hunted I went into the job centre and picked up a card, went to a desk and arranged the interview then and there. Went to interview, face to face and always got the job. Now it's all done online, daft questions that really mean nothing but if you answer the way the algorithm wants you might get an interview. Right now I have applied for something and I have a video interview to set up. I haven't even heard of this before. And I'll need to really figure it out, figure out the bloody dodgy laptop we have and hope it works. And this is for a low wage retail job, not something high flying. And it's a job I could do but will probably make a hash of the video interview as I'm slow with anything IT.
it's just all a bloody minefield. I'm someone who sticks at a job and does it well. I've got so much to offer a company but am lost putting myself across without the straightforward face to face stuff I'm used to. I go into shops, banks etc and I stare at people working there thinking why can they get that job and I can't, I could run rings round them but they are in better jobs than me. I'm currently working in a kitchen on min wage. It's soul destroying.

Personally I don't ask the biggest weakness question, I think it's pointless.

I tend to be drawn to the ones who are very active, motivated and committed - whilst you might think it would mean less commitment to their job, it has always shown people who get just as invested as work.

That’s interesting. It’s only ever worked the other way for me - I’ve seen ‘very active on social media’ under Hobbies and translated it to ‘Will spend more time pissing about on Twitter and Instagram than I will working’.

@ssd everything you said is so true. I've been job hunting for three months, finally landed a job which is great but honestly a week ago I was praying for someone to hire me just so I could stop doing these bloody job applications and interviews. It's a nightmare.

ssd
I think the less than 16 hour a week contracts (in min wage jobs) is something to do with NI/pensions cost. Ie a lot of employees on less than 16 hours a week costs the employer less than employees on full time contracts.

Also, in this country, we have an over supply of what is classed as un/low skilled labour. That means that employers can pick and choose employees for those jobs and get away with giving those employees shitty terms of employment, such as zero hours contracts. They can also put no thought into candidate engagement in the recruitment process. They wouldn’t have any staff if they tried doing this in skills short specialisms.

@Allergictoironing

When I returned to work after a 10 year break raising my children, I was seeking part-time employment that was not at the high level I’d had prior to starting a family. I was temping and applied for the permanent post. My line manager told me I was over-qualified which was true. I replied, “Yes, I may be over-qualified, but this means I can deal with just about anything you ask me to do.” I added, “This is exactly what I need for the next few years as it fits perfectly with my family commitments.” I got the job and stayed for just over 3 years.

Oh I've tried that, they just won't believe me. I'm pretty sure that in a few cases the hiring manager has realised that I actually know more than them which has scared them off.

I don't have the excuse of a career break for raising children, and you can't really tell them you can't mentally cope any more having been driven into breakdowns by previous jobs - they just assume that you're incapable of coping with ANY job then.

From 23-40 you are a liability cause you might get pregnant and go off for years. Then from 40 onwards you are too old.

Yep.
For men tho, 40 is still considered quite a dynamic age. Go figure.

Re the 1 page CV-yes it's an American thing. A resume (as they call it) is never more than one page. I have several for different types of jobs. They only have relevant experience, so I leave off anything that veers off the point. I have had many compliments from recruiters about my CV but failed to get the jobs I was going for at interview. I had decided on turning 40 that I was going to go for the next level up. I had spent 10+ years kind of on the mum track, but had built up solid experience and skills in that time, and was ready to really throw myself into work and make more money.
Nope. All my feedback was great. They loved me, I was clearly skilled and a great communicator. Then they would hire a 25 year old. Every time.
So I gave up and now do something completely different ( and still not well paid!)And yet I have 26 more years of work ahead if me...soul destroying is right.

If I ever need to employ anyone I will be exclusively hiring women over 45 though. Preferably over 50. I will just get them from MN!

@ifnot

Then add in the gender pay gap to it all too.

Love your post though. I don’t get the ageism, the older people get, the more breadth of experience they can add.

I don't know which is worse - receiving a deluge of unsuitable applications directly or an agency completely ignoring your requirements. Surely everyone knows you don't send out a generic covering letter and cv, I always used to amend both to fit the spec of each job for which I applied.

At one time I was recruiting a secretary for a manager whose grammar and spelling were atrocious so needed someone with excellent English. The agency was given a full brief including this specific requirement and they set up an interview - two females arrived and I assumed the agency had double booked but no, the candidate was accompanied by her cousin to translate as she spoke very little English!

'Chucking at the righteous indignation of the OP for ranting about the number of poor, badly put together applications for ..... an admin job at a charity. Which I’m presuming isn’t the most well remunerated position in the marketplace etc. '

I don't think you know much about charities. A service administrator in a charity is a demanding and skilled position.

Couple of other observations after going through the latest batch this morning:

• Don't put "I have all the skills you are looking for and many more besides" in your cover letter and then don't actually elaborate on what those skills are.

• Don't send a cover letter in for the wrong job by mistake

• Don't label your CV (for instance) Mary Adams Communications Manager when the job title is something totally unrelated to that

• Don't send in a cover letter saying "I would like to be interviewed for this role" and literally nothing else

Still SO many people sending in CVs and no cover letters. They get immediately rejected no matter how good their CV is, as all that tells me is that they can't read instructions properly, they are just sending out CVs to everywhere without actually reading about what the job is, or they think writing a cover letter is beneath them and I will interview them purely going on their amazing CV.

I want to employ all the women over 40 on this thread who can't get jobs :(

Is anyone an ex legal bod wanting to paralegal?

IfNot 🙋🏻‍♀️ I'll have a job please, I'm over 50 and nay want a few hours a week. No one will employ me 😤

what's your background citadels?

I worked in healthcare recruitment briefly. I was amazed at how many people not only just sent in a CV without any kind of cover letter, but also how many of those sent a CV which clearly hadn't been updated for months, sometimes even years! There were many that didn't have any experience whatsoever, let alone in the specific area we stated that they must have experience in. I always spoke to each applicant that I was interested in on the phone, to help save wasting my/their time by interviewing if they didn't fit certain essential criteria. These calls usually took around 20 minutes, it's amazing how many of these really enthusiastic people then didn't show up to their face to face interview, and how many of those who did turned up in tracksuit bottoms and/or without the paperwork that I had listed in the phone call then again over email.
On a positive note I really enjoyed the hobbies and interests section in the CV. Not least because a good selection said to me that this person knows how to relax/unwind outside of work!

Is anyone an ex legal bod wanting to paralegal?

I'm not but I'd be happy to retrain.

I'd recommend getting temp agency admin jobs (Brook Street & the like) for the over 40 job seeker. You have to do data entry and typing tests ( speed & accuracy) but they know us mature candidates are reliable so can easily place us in a job.
I did 2 years temping (4 assignments with 3 public sector employers). I finally got a permanent role with the last one and have been there 3 years. Use as a springboard

I did temp admin when I was 17. I just don't think I could go back to the beginning again. If I was still looking I would genuinely rather work in Tesco than that.
I really don't think men over 40 have to go back to data entry? Maybe at 60, but not 41!

I think it depends. If you work in a type of job where there is an over supply of labour then you do really have to ensure you stand out in the recruitment process - difficult when the recruitment process is automated, I know.

I work in HR so I’m conscious of my own “employability”. This means that I have constantly upskilled throughout my career. Taken courses to ensure I’m always up to date. The flip side of that is that I’ve been busy concentrating on my career and may have left it too late to have kids. Swings and roundabouts I guess.

Just had a classic one. Role advertised on a job board, won't say exactly what field but attention to detail an absolute must. Down at the bottom the advert said a short personal statement was required, and applications should be made through their short online application form.

Options for applying? Either standard Job Board application where you choose the CV & can do a short cover email, or the "one click apply" where it takes your standard CV and just says applying for so-and-so job. No link whatsoever to any other application forms, or the recruiter's web site (sigh)

Kenny33
Too late to have kids? Nah, men can become fathers at any age; it’s us women who often run out of time

@Chocolatenoodle

I’m female!