to think that people have no idea how to apply for jobs?!

[myteenytinyteapot]

Just that really. Hiring for a senior admin person at the moment and have had hundreds of applications but honestly only about four shortlistable ones. I have had:

• CVs which include full-length glamour model style photographs of applicants
• CVs without cover letters when the advert clearly asks for a cover letter
• CVs and cover letters riddled with spelling and grammatical errors
• CVs which are 20 pages long and go into loads of detail about the hobbies and interests of the applicant. Also hardly anyone uses page numbers!
• Cover letters which are obviously just generic copied and pasted mass send out jobs - "I am writing to apply for the position advertised". Couldn't even be arsed to put in the job title!
• People applying who don't have any of the essential requirements listed

AIBU that I'm not surprised people can't get jobs if this is the general standard considered acceptable?!

That’s really interesting. Which private sector fields?

You couldn’t do a job application for an independent school in that time, long long job specs and person specs make it impossible. Many charities have similarly long application forms.

Agreed OP.

However, I will say that some job sites if you're applying for the millionth job through it and they ask for an application letter, I normally just do a short note!

It worked for me recently though, as I got an interview the other day as legal secretary to a worldwide company, applied on their website but saw the advert on linked in. Didn't give it much thought afterwards and was surprised but pleased to be invited for interview.

@applekatie

I looked at professional services and focused on what turns candidates off from applying.

@AppleKatie

I looked at the whole recruitment and selection process - basically what is likely to make applicants drop out of the process, whether that’s at application stage, during the selection process or at offer stage.

Re school exam grades - I took these off my CV to save space. But, at the age of over 40, with a BSc and PhD, and years of work experience, one company came back to me wanting to know my A level grades!

They weren't good enough evidently, as I didn't get an interview!

@duestothedirt

That’s ridiculous! I have a degree, MSc and professional qualification related to my job so I’ve obviously (to you and I at least😂) managed to pass GCSEs, then A-levels to be able to progress that far through the education system. At least they didn’t ask you to confirm that you had at least 5 GCSEs at a C and above!

There really isn't any need at all for long person specs IMO, I hate those.

I would definitely encourage people to apply even if they don't meet all the essential criteria, as long as they meet most of them and they can explain what could be done about the ones they don't meet.

Actually when I applied for this job years ago I was told I needed knowledge of a certain accounting package as an essential criterion. I don't have it, but I'd learned others and as I know I pick up new techs very quickly and easily I applied anyway. Got the job and they trained me in it, which genuinely took less than half a day, it was self explanatory.

Can anyone help me with a video interview? I've never even heard of this before. What's the reason you'd get this rather than a face to face interview?

I don’t think there was any need for stilllaughingandcoughing to be so nasty.

Oh, put your pearls away dear. I didn’t kick a puppy or steal a child’s chocolate buttons.

Can anyone help me with a video interview? I've never even heard of this before. What's the reason you'd get this rather than a face to face interview?

If one or more candidates is potentially relocating for the role, it may be more practical and cost-efficient to interview everyone by video - level the playing field.

I beg to differ re 12 mins! I see a job description for something paying say £24k and when I get to Essential Criteria 18 I really think there is some general cut and pasting going on with no thought as to whether this will put people off.

I think both sides need to massively pull their socks up re the recruitment process. You wont get good people by pissing around and employees - please take care with your application to ensure that you make a good impression.

I've certainly found this for lower graded work in my sector (local government) - that people don't know how to fill in a form, or use the person specification to complete an application form. We rarely, if ever, use CVs, because you can't guarantee people provide you with the same level of information needed for shortlisting.

But the boot is also on the other foot for employers, I'm afraid, whose singular inability to make the application process easy causes a whole welter of issues. Just a few I have personally experienced.

An employer not stating a salary range - "we want to pay you as little as possible"

An employer not stating when interviews will be, or calling with 48 hours notice of an interview and not being able to understand why you can't rearrange everything at short notice. Or turning up 2 hours late for an interview and then asking everyone to stay 2 hours later in the day to accommodate her and binning applicants who couldn't.

An employer with a frankly unrealistic expectation of 2 professional qualifications in 2 completely different field and a derisory salary. This advert ran - at considerably expense to the organisation - 4 times in the Guardian.

An employer asking questions and setting tests at interview that were absolutely nowhere mentioned on any part of the JD or person specification, and then accusing me of wasting their time by not having the ability to undertake the task. If you're getting the "wrong kind of applicant" for the job, it might actually be partially your fault.

Telling me the role was a fixed term contract role rather than permanent as advertised as "no-one would have applied otherwise". Or offering me a fixed term contract "to see how we get on" - when I'm already working on a similar level in a similar role on a similar salary and then get aggressive and accuse me of "wasting their time" when I refused the role. Or offering me a lower salary than advertised "because I couldn't get the budget approved" - I even offered to work shorter hours for this one, but was told, "No, I need someone full time". That was another re advertisement.

myteenytinyteapot in some countries a photo is included as standard with a CV

This is very common in Germany, as is signing your CV. Often if a photo is asked for there or elsewhere, it's to weed out BME candidates

rice - most interesting. Having worked for over 30 years in one company (I did work elsewhere in my younger days!) I shouldn't be surprised. Even internally we mess it up. HR have to sign off everything once you want to make an offer. They often spend weeks being chased and by that time my fab applicant has found themselves something else.

In my company a lot of HR are young women who work part time. Nothing wrong with that at all but don't make it difficult for yourself by wanting to rubber stamp offers but not having the bandwidth to do so!

I am just about to get an offer from a government dept and honestly without outing myself the salary was awful, lots (and I mean lots!) of man management. Apparently the role requires you to liaise with HR a lot. With so many people to manage I am not surprised. I will be turning it down but I expect they could get quite arsy with me for wasting their time!

@sunglasses123

We’ve got our application process down to 8-10 minutes. We ask some questions relating to the job and around culture fit. Plus we expect a CV.

There is a lot of research showing that candidates give up on their application if it takes longer than 12 minutes. Companies who have long winded application processes are losing candidates - they don’t know they’ve lost them as these candidates aren’t completing their application.

I appreciate public sector is different.

As I am right in the middle of all of this I do think companies (and I include my current one!) wallow in the process. They over complicate. I am doing something quite unusual and I would love the opportunity to talk to the recruiter in advance of applying to ensure that neither side wastes their time. Only once did this happen and we both agreed that the job wasn't right for me. Saves lots of time.

Still if employers want to continue with the online tests, the personality tests, the maths and English tests, a covering letter, supporting information, CV, copies of exams long gone, just carry on...

Some companies have dreadful recruitment and selection processes - hence my interest and dissertation. They are losing good candidates though.

Often if a photo is asked for there or elsewhere, it's to weed out BME candidates

@riceuten did you just suggest that German employers are all unashamedly racist?

There are two types of video interview. The first is when you login at a set time and have a conversation with the manager / recruiter. More common now due to home working. I have no issue with this.

The 2nd type is when you login whenever you can and answer some preset questions by video but don’t have an actual conversation with anyone. These are awful and deter good candidates from continuing the application process, because no one enjoys them. Unfortunately there is a trend for these at the moment. Companies think they are saving time by doing them. I can only see that they would work for apprentice/graduate, or some other role that you would get a high volume of applicants for and needed to whittle it down to a more manageable number.

Incidentally, the DWP and JC+ are to blame also for arcane and unfathomable rules about applications. I had a mandated month between jobs and signed on, and when I did, I couldn't believe the hoops I had to jump through.

So, firstly they asked me to bring "some completed application forms" - which I did - as I'd had the foresight to print some out prior to departure from work. "No, these don't count, they're email applications, I need ones where you've filled out a proper form, and a letter acknowledging receipt". I wanted to say "We're not in 1985, you know". Eventually, she relented, but the next time I attended, I had to bring - printed out at my own not inconsiderable expense - copies of online applications I'd made.

@riceuten did you just suggest that German employers are all unashamedly racist?

Quite a few are. Germany is streets ahead of us in many, many areas, but with regard to racism (and personal financial services) it's like the 1960s

@riceuten

Re the DWP. Sounds absolutely stupid, how long ago was this?

About 5 years ago. I recognise this could have been a one off, or the peculiarities of a particular member of staff, but I dread to think who else had the benefit of her "advice" - another sterling piece of advice she gave to the guy who signed on before me was to "take off the 'other languages spoken'" from his CV "as it puts some employers off". Who'd want to work for an employer who DIDN'T want you to speak a second language?

@riceuten
I was unemployed for two months, five years ago too.

My job coach was dreadful too. I’d say pretty much unemployable herself, outside of the DWP.

@kenny33 I'm a postgraduate with extensive local government experience and at the time of applying for JSA, I had about 20 applications for a variety of organisations at various stages....so she suggested I fire off unsolicited applications with my CV to all the major employers in the town, and "apply to Tesco Metro, they're looking for night staff at the moment".

And of course had the power to suspend my claim if I refused.