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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think if you cycle into an elderly lady

163 replies

Sexnotgender · 15/07/2019 17:45

You should at least stop and check she’s ok?

Gobsmacked at the total lack of concern shown by the cyclist. He took a chunk out her arm and just carried on!

OP posts:
SoupDragon · 17/07/2019 11:20

Would it help, Soupdragon, to imagine each cyclist a car off the road?

No. It's completely and utterly irrelevant to this thread.

SoupDragon · 17/07/2019 11:23

Catching a bus is also a car off the road (which I now often do). It is also completely irrelevant.

JacquesHammer · 17/07/2019 11:50

There's a large amount of drivers who act like dangerous bellends whilst adding to pollution. If people stating this fact gets your back up then maybe it's time to make changes in your life

And if those facts are completely irrelevant to the thread....?

Classic case of whataboutism.

HappySeven · 17/07/2019 12:35

I think being a cyclist makes me a better motorist and vice versa which is why I don't jump lights or cycle on pavements. I don't appreciate people that say "cyclists are....", it makes me nervous for my safety on the roads as I've always assumed people put me in danger owing to ignorance and the anti-cycling comments make me feel it wasn't an accident. I hate it when cyclists jump red lights too - if I'm brave enough I catch them up and tell them - as it gives us all a bad name and makes some motorists think we're all shit. If I had a pound for every time I got to the cycle box at a junction to find a car in it I would be able to hire a chauffeur and forget cycling Wink but it doesn't mean all motorists do it.

I've been knocked off once and had many narrow misses. My husband has been knocked off 3 times. We both wear helmets and bright colours/high viz.

I feel very sorry for the pedestrian who was hit by a cyclist. It was wrong of the cyclist and wrong of them not to stop but that doesn't mean all cyclists are dangerous and should be removed from the road. We all pay for the roads and we all deserve to use them safely.

Immensebrenda · 17/07/2019 13:23

JacquesHammer:

*I would hope not. My three examples are:-

  1. Stretch of tow path that is very clearly signed to dismount as it is a narrow tunnel with poor visibility. Cyclists regularly don’t, one of whom knocked a child into the canal.
  1. Cyclist ran over dog in an area of the local country park where cycling is forbidden.
  1. Main road through town has a left only lane, then straight ahead. Cyclist hugs the kerb only to go straight ahead when he should clearly position himself between the two lanes of traffic. I saw him do this every working day for 4 months.*

JacquesHammer, in the above post you described three situations that you had personal knowledge of and you thought we could agree on.

The first two seem clear. 'No Cycling' means no cycling. In my experience local councils broadly (if often clumsily) encourage cycling and make these bi-laws for good reason.

Your third situation though is an excellent example of how little understanding there is by people (most of whom drive, but don't cycle) of cyclists and cycling on public roads.

You describe a junction with a left turn lane. Traffic intending to go ahead are expected to move to the right hand lane to do so. This a very typical, often busy, urban road layout and takes absolutely no account of the needs of cyclists, who come in all ages, shapes, sizes and degrees of fitness.

My approach at a junction like this would be to check over my shoulder and move to the centre of the left turn lane, (ie ignoring the arrow and signs - shock horror) and signalling if necessary. This prevents any cars in that lane getting beside me and then turning into me and running me down when they (inexplicably) don't manage to see me. Once I am past the junction I would move back to the left. The idea that a cyclist should follow the road sign instruction to change lane is actually dangerous for various reasons, the biggest of which is because it puts the rider between two lanes of traffic and may on some road layouts mean the rider then has to get back again.

I am a fit, very experienced cyclist. On most busy urban roads I can keep up with the cars and often move quicker. This gives me a considerable safety advantage over cyclists who are perhaps older, less experienced or less fit. It takes confidence and skill to glance over your shoulder on a bike, while staying in a straight line, assessing the traffic (ie the bloke in the white van six feet off your back wheel) and its intentions and then to get in its way to prevent it from running you over. I would say most cyclists prefer to stay left and as close to the curb as much as possible, believing that always staying out of the way of the traffic (an idea by implication promoted by many people who have contributed to this thread) is the safest way to ride. It often really isn't.

The person in your example JacquesHammer was doing what thousands of cyclists would also do at that junction often because they have no other choice. Because a driver can very easily kill a cyclist, it always behoves the driver to take this into account, which you don't appear to have done. This is surely a basic principle that seems to escape many people and is only an extension of the cyclist v. pedestrian
argument so many of the non-cycling drivers seem to be so exercised about.

So, no, I don't think the rider in your example was necessarily doing a stupid thing and if you rode a bike more you could only agree.

JacquesHammer · 17/07/2019 13:34

The person in your example JacquesHammer was doing what thousands of cyclists would also do at that junction often because they have no other choice

There is a choice as it happens. He could do as you do, cycle in the middle of the left lane.

Going straight ahead in a left only lane - and at the kerb side is pure stupidity. Especially as the left lane is filtered. So whilst traffic is turning left, and traffic from the road they’re turning into is turning right, idiot is trying to go straight on.

I’ve just realised I missed out the fact there is a filter. But I’m quite sure you’ll find a way to explain why he isn’t stupid Grin.

Immensebrenda · 17/07/2019 14:59

JacquesHammer:

There is a choice as it happens. He could do as you do, cycle in the middle of the left lane.

No, they don't necessarily feel they have a choice as a junction like that is intimidating possibly for most cyclists. And it's not following the rules of the road either (for those hung up on that). It is unreasonable and unrealistic to expect all cyclists to ride as I do, but it is not unreasonable or unrealistic for drivers to take all cyclists into account. In fact, if a driver hits and kills or injures the cyclist in your example it is probable the driver will be prosecuted - arguably not sufficiently, but prosecuted nevertheless.

If it's a filter like the one near me, then it's very difficult for cyclists to use because we have to completely cross one often full lane of traffic to get out of the left turn lane. My experience is (and as most drivers would agree), the same impatience, distraction, aggression and stupidity that would put just a dent in another car can quite easily kill a cyclist. I think some people are oblivious to this fact.

Immensebrenda · 17/07/2019 16:36

There have been plenty of posts on this thread accusing people of avoiding the point of the OP and instead criticising drivers' behaviour towards cyclists, the frankly daft implication being that no one (particularly cyclists) cares about the pedestrian victim. This is obviously silly because most of us are pedestrians at least sometimes and so are, at least sometimes, at risk of being hit by careless idiots on bikes. I don't see why anyone wouldn't be outraged on a fellow pedestrian's behalf when they are struck by a cyclist, particularly when they are riding where they shouldn't be. That's why it's vacuous. The real problem comes when the OP is quickly followed by a tidal wave of predictable anti-cyclist rantings.

Perhaps the reason an argument like this almost always moves into a car v. bicycle debate is because it's a very safe bet that those who are raging the loudest about cyclists are also drivers and everyone (not just cyclists) know this. And if there's one thing anyone who rides a bike regularly on public roads knows is that drivers' attitude and behaviour is by far the biggest threat to life for all cyclists. Obviously, the behaviour of cyclists does occasionally contribute to their own injury or even death (I've had plenty of grazes from falling off over the years and I've hospitalised myself once when I didn't see a pot-hole, but hey, that's thirty years of bike-riding for you...) My occasional experiences with potential killer drivers falls into a whole different category.

I think the message from those like me that are appearing to divert the debate from the OP is directed at those shouting the loudest in this thread about cyclists. Their language and tone appears to many cyclists to implicity support drivers who are just impatient, lunatic, idiotic or often just useless.

Posters who are using the OP to launch general ill-informed attacks against cyclists and cycling should get their own house in order before launching tirades against people who just want to ride their bike - no matter how inconveniently.

Fullyhuman · 17/07/2019 16:37

Has anyone ever seen a female cyclist endanger pedestrians, act illegally? I live in London and see male cyclists do this every day, only law i’ve seen women cyclists break is riding on the pavement, usually because her kids are with her and always giving way to pedestrians, going slowly and considerately.

Immensebrenda · 17/07/2019 17:12

Has anyone ever seen a female cyclist endanger pedestrians, act illegally? I live in London and see male cyclists do this every day, only law i’ve seen women cyclists break is riding on the pavement, usually because her kids are with her and always giving way to pedestrians, going slowly and considerately.

Makes sense Fullyhuman, male aggression is a pain in the you-know-what (and that's coming from a bloke). I will say though that aggression's wiser sister, assertiveness, can be the difference between surviving an encounter with a driver and being hit. Just a shame a lot of men don't know the difference.

You may know this, but a few years ago it was noted in London that a common, occasionally fatal, collision between cyclists and trucks occurred at left turn traffic lights where the cyclist victims were predominantly women. It was suggested - not unreasonably in my view - that this may have been because women were less inclined to claim the road in line with the traffic and would stick to the curb, possibly because they were fearful of holding up aggressive or impatient drivers.

jennymanara · 18/07/2019 07:50

God cyclists cycling straight ahead in a left turning lane are bound to annoy drivers. And I see cyclists here all the time in the lane for straight ahead.
I once posted on here about seeing a cyclists on a fast dual carriageway cycling slowly straight ahead past the entrance to a slip road.
I fail to understand why some pro cyclists on here refuse to accept that cyclists can ever be in the wrong. And yes it is men.

joyfullittlehippo · 18/07/2019 11:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

whatsthecomingoverthehill · 18/07/2019 11:38

The reason people who ride bikes get defensive on these threads is because they get overrun by the usual suspects extrapolating from a single incident to propose wholesale measures that would effect all cyclists.

So yes, SoupDragon, when you are proposing to introduce mandatory registration and so on, it is entirely natural to compare that with the risks posed by motor vehicles, because you are implicitly making the link yourself.

Why don't you start a thread specifically about licensing of cyclists? Then we can discuss it properly. Better that than latching onto any thread where a cyclist has done something wrong, and then complaining when people object.

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