To think if you cycle into an elderly lady

[Sexnotgender]

You should at least stop and check she’s ok?

Gobsmacked at the total lack of concern shown by the cyclist. He took a chunk out her arm and just carried on!

If 2 million plus cars are being driven on the roads without tax and insurance who on earth is going to enforce a similar law for cyclists? Makes no practical sense to me!

The theory is relatively sound though.

It is a bit hopeless quoting statistics of car-driver -v- cyclist accidents as so many go unreported. My friend (we all live in London) was crossing on a pedestrian crossing a few years ago, got part way across the road and a cyclist rode straight into her, knocked her down, causing shock, cuts and bruises and then swore at her for being in his way and rode off. This is not unusual. Also, I am so fed up with all the cyclists cycling on the pavements - THIS IS ADDRESSED IN THE HIGHWAY CODE AND IS NOT PERMITTED. Visitors who hire Boris bikes, etc should also be told this as they are sometimes the worst offenders. If a cyclist needs to go onto the pavement, they should get off and push it. I always did/do.

@HappySeven

These threads always make me sad.

Why are you sad? It’s a thread about a cyclist who knocked over an elderly woman on a pavement. People are allowed to be angry. I would be just as angry as a hit and run motorist.

Wow, what a nightmare this thread's turned into, eh? Someone mentions an accident where a cyclist hits an elderly pedestrian and cycles off and we get five pages of hate and vitriol.

On top of cycling to school every day when I was a kid, I've been riding various types of bike as an adult for over thirty years, from London cycle courier in the late 1980's, commuter on and off, mountainbiker here and there, amateur road racer for several years (with the required 150-200 miles a week training and riding). So I like to think I know a bit about riding a bike. Oh, and I've been driving a car since I was seventeen.

My first impression is that many, perhaps most messages here have been posted by people who don't have much experience of cycling, or perhaps more importantly, are ignorant of or are not interested in the wider issues that cycling raises.

First off, obviously, unless they're mad, no one condones people cycling into other people and riding off, particularly when someone has been hurt. Obviously.

Personally, my own direct concern is all the hate. When I read all these mostly predictable rants from what I suspect are, on the face of it, and outside this thread, seemingly perfectly decent folks, I'm reminded just how vulnerable I am.

It's a direct concern, because I realise I might have to share a road with one of these folks tomorrow and I doubt I'm alone when I say I genuinely feel threatened when I know people with this view are in charge of a couple of tons of high-speed metal while I am on just a bicycle.

Someone once said that everything would change instantly if the power balance was evened up by equipping every cyclist with a loaded revolver. There is much truth in this, not because it's a good idea to arm cyclists, but because it perfectly illustrates how easy it is for a someone in a car to kill, maim or potentially murder a cyclist.

And then you have the power imbalance between the cyclist and the pedestrian. The pedestrian who was the victim here. Who was knocked over, frightened, and hurt, and the cyclist gave zero shits.

It's a direct concern to pedestrians just how selfish, dangerous, and volatile some cyclists can be.

And yes, I have plenty of experience of cycling, as well as walking and driving. I'm guessing these arseholes on a bike are also arseholes behind the wheel of a car. And most probably arseholes when they're on two feet in the bloody supermarket too.

Someone once said that everything would change instantly if the power balance was evened up by equipping every cyclist with a loaded revolver. There is much truth in this, not because it's a good idea to arm cyclists, but because it perfectly illustrates how easy it is for a someone in a car to kill, maim or potentially murder a cyclist

See I just think it’s nonsense.

It minimises the issues cyclists cause with the “oh but cars are worse”.

It isn’t a race to the bottom. It should be perfectly acceptable to condemn poor behaviour without pages of whataboutery.

mbosnz said:

*And then you have the power imbalance between the cyclist and the pedestrian. The pedestrian who was the victim here. Who was knocked over, frightened, and hurt, and the cyclist gave zero shits.

It's a direct concern to pedestrians just how selfish, dangerous, and volatile some cyclists can be.

And yes, I have plenty of experience of cycling, as well as walking and driving. I'm guessing these arseholes on a bike are also arseholes behind the wheel of a car. And most probably arseholes when they're on two feet in the bloody supermarket too.*

Most of us are pedestrians too. You don't occupy a special place. It's vacuous to point out the vulnerability of pedestrians when someone rides into them on a bike. Everyone is threatened by cyclists who are irresponsible and careless. They are, by definition, anti-social.

The point I was making was that it's safe to assume that the hate expressed here is being put out by people who are likely to be driving a car in the vicinity of cyclists very soon.

It's ironic that they are claiming to be outraged by the alleged attitude of cyclists to pedestrians. It's an attitude I certainly don't have, and neither does any other cyclist I know - presumably because we are also pedestrians.

I'm not condemning it JacquesHammer, I'm pointing out that it seems that some people who drive seem violently angry towards people on bikes. This is a concern. Particularly if you ride a bike.

Not complicated JacquesHammer. I think it's obvious everyone condemns cyclists who ride into pedestrians though selfishness or stupidity. And particularly stupid when you consider the likelihood of the cyclist also being seriously hurt in a collision with a pedestrian.

I'm pointing out that it seems that some people who drive seem violently angry towards people on bikes. This is a concern. Particularly if you ride a bike

It’s a particular failing in MN. Doesn’t matter what the cyclists do people will fall over themselves explaining why the cyclist couldn’t possibly be at fault.

It’s childish.

No, cyclists shouldn't generally be riding on the pavement (though note that police guidance is not to target "responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of the traffic, and who show consideration to other pavement users") and obviously hitting someone and then leaving is reprehensible.

But trying to address that behaviour by calling for all cyclists to be regulated / licensed / insured etc is misguided. If you do it, then many responsible law abiding cyclists will no doubt happily oblige (many are already insured through home insurance or dedicated cycling insurance), but it's not the responsible law abiding ones you're seeking to address. Forcing drivers to be licensed and insured hasn't eradicated poor driving and doesn't even succeed in holding people accountable - more than half of drivers admit to speeding, and many admit to using their mobile illegally while driving. Have a look at some reports of driving convictions and count how many times the defendant was unlicensed / uninsured / disqualified for a former driving offence at the time of the offence. That's not whataboutery - dangerous cyclists and dangerous drivers both need to be held to account, but licensing cyclists is unlikely to achieve that aim. The Government has already established that licensing cyclists is unworkable - it would be prohibitively costly for negligible benefit. Other countries who have introduced bike licensing have subsequently abolished it. A licensing system is also likely to have a chilling effect on uptake of cycling at a time when governments are actively encouraging increased uptake of active travel to realise health benefits (and ease strain on the NHS), reduce pollution and ease congestion.

What do you mean 'you don't occupy a special place'? Can't quite get what you're trying to say there. Why is it vacuous to point out the vulnerability of pedestrians when someone rides into them on a bike, but not to point out the vulnerability of cyclists when they are hit by someone in a car?

I don't know about you, but I can hate something, and not be taking murderous aim at them. Most people can. I think if people were acting on the level of anger and frustration that they have towards cyclists because of the inconsiderate, arrogant and dangerous behaviours of some cyclists, there'd actually be a hell of a lot more cycling accidents.

I saw several incidents of knowingly dangerous, either to themselves or others, or deliberately obstructive cycling in the last week, by a number of very disparate types of cyclists. No-one rose to the bait, which I think in some circumstances they were very, very fortunate.

While you and your colleagues who cycle may not have this attitude towards pedestrians, clearly a fair few others do. It's a shame, because yes, for some, all cyclists get tarred with the same brush. Which of course, they shouldn't.

JacquesHammer, Is there anyone who has posted to say the cyclist couldn't possibly be at fault? I'm not sure how that could possibly be argued based on the very brief account given in the OP.

There’s people who haven’t addressed the issue and discussed how awful it is to be vilified as a cyclist, even comparing it to racism

From my POV I’ve spoken about three incidents on MN and been told on each occasion there must be more too it, or the cyclist shouldn’t be at fault, or cars would have caused more damage

When my DD was a very new baby I was pushing her pram across the road, across a proper crossing with buttons and traffic lights and it was my right of way. 3 cyclists came whizzing up and 2 stopped as they should but 1 kept going and missed my pram by mere inches! His 2 friends were mortified, they couldn't apologise enough on his behalf and they said he never stops at crossings

Seriously ohrainydays? People think it's ok to mow down old ladies and ride off..? Anyone who posts that sort of view just needs to ignored. Except maybe by someone with a big net and a tazer.

The problem with the original post was it was a bit like click bait. All it needed was a general agreement that the cyclist was an idiot. Or mad. Or a criminal. But what I found when I decided to wade in was the usual general tirade against cyclists, some of which was worryingly hateful and much of which is ill-informed and doubtless largely based on hearsay. It's this that stops people riding bicycles. Which I suppose is a bit of a result for some.

I made a point earlier that I think needs reiterating. For a cyclist, a serious collision with a pedestrian is likely to put both of them in hospital.

For a cyclist, a serious collision with a pedestrian is likely to put both of them in hospital

So it’s a fair point to say cyclists shouldn’t be riding where they are expressly forbidden to be if the risk to themselves is so great?

mbosnz: I don't know about you, but I can hate something, and not be taking murderous aim at them. Most people can. I think if people were acting on the level of anger and frustration that they have towards cyclists because of the inconsiderate, arrogant and dangerous behaviours of some cyclists, there'd actually be a hell of a lot more cycling accidents.

Most people can. But if I challenge a driver on e.g. a dangerous close pass, their response is often along the lines of "yeah, well cyclists jump red lights / don't pay "road tax" / [insert other anti-cycling bingo here]".

JacquesHammer of course they shouldn't be riding where it's expressly forbidden. Did I say otherwise?

JacquesHammer of course they shouldn't be riding where it's expressly forbidden. Did I say otherwise

I didn’t say you did

But it was a point worth making if the risk to them is just so terrible, maybe they should, you know, not do stupid stuff. It’s not rocket science.

so cyclists should not cycle in pavements! (agreed). But according to many threads on MN, cyclists shouldn't cycle on the road either - lost count of the threads where people complained and posters agreed - that cyclists and a huge noiseance on the road who are in the way if cars, slow down traffic and doing so, they don't even pay road tax (even though there is no such thing but such is the level of ignorance).

where on earth should cyclists ride their bikes? we know where people don't wanna see them but where should they go?

JacquesHammer:

But it was a point worth making if the risk to them is just so terrible, maybe they should, you know, not do stupid stuff. It’s not rocket science.

Quite. People doing stupid things that are an obvious danger to themselves and others should not do them.

Quite. People doing stupid things that are an obvious danger to themselves and others should not do them

I wish more cyclists were like you.

The majority on MN would put forth the opinion that whatever a cyclist did couldn’t be stupid

Hmmm, JacquesHammer I suspect our idea of 'stupid things' a cyclist might do could differ on a few crucial points. Particularly if you don't or rarely ride a bike.

I have spent many a mostly fruitless hour over the years trying to explain to people why cyclists might do things that appear selfish or stupid that in fact aren't. Interestingly it's usually not because a cyclist has been risking their lives in some way, but because, on further brief investigation, it emerges they have been delaying the complainant or otherwise getting in their way. Many British roads aren't designed for bikes, so often cyclists have to wing it a bit to reduce the hazard to themselves.