Kids don't want to go to dads

[Brandnewshit]

I'm wondering if anyone can advise
I have 2 dc dd 10 and ds 14.
Backstory as I don't want to drip feed.
Ex was emotionally abusive, split 3 years ago.

Police, SS, GP, coundelling,women's aid, solicitor and school support worker involvement.

I have zero contact since last Xmas, as he continued to be abusive even through a designated separate email account.

When we split he was determined to make the kids hate me, he told me that was his goal, ie malicious reports to ss, ringing my parents, neighbour's etc.

He told me that the DC would eventually hate me.

I have tried to hold my head high, despite him withholding CMS money for the 5 days before he can be reported when we've been struggling, repeatedly brings them home late, pisssing about with not returning clothing I've bought, adding his partners 2 kids (who are 17 and 18) to the CMS claim to reduce money to his own DC.
Not contributing to another penny over the CMS calculated amount.
Just the usual stupid shitty behaviour etc...

I've never bad mouthed him to DC, never stopped access, had to simply explain to them that they will have to wait a bit longer for items they need as I don't have the money.
I am disabled, on every benefit going and struggle, physically emotionally and financially.

Over the last few weeks my DD10 has been v upset about going to her dad's.
She has said she doesn't want to go,
DS14 is borderline on wanting to go
He's at the age where he wants to sit on his Xbox all day and chat to friends online, so where he is doesnt really matter to him
Ex is an angry man, emotionally abusive, hence us splitting, v long backstory.
DD10 has been in tears tonight.
She doesn't want to go to his anymore.
Reasons are... he's angry all the time, doesn't listen to her, sits in kitchen with his current partner drinking and gets cross if they go in kitchen, the house is dirty, in her words, the kitchen is disgusting, smells (Which from the horrible deep fat fryer smell they come home smelling of, I can believe)
His partner has 2 large dogs that have destroyed the house, sofas, carpets, ripped a shower off the bathroom wall, cover her belongings in hair.
She was v upset, asked if she can stay at home this coming weekend instead of going to his.
I don't know what to do, it's obvious that they are seeing him for what he is.

I have purposely never bad mouthed him to them, encouraged them to see him, which to start with they were happy, as he was Disney dad, but they are now realising that he is a waste of space, for themselves
I want them to have s relationship with him.
I'm not the stop access for nothing type of parent.
But what do I do?
She doesn't want to go, DS isn't fussed either way.
I've sat with her tonight, told her get dad loves her, she needs to tell him, but she's scared to tell him as in her words he will get upset and angry.
We have 5 days left of school term, so the school support worker is out of the question.
My new partner is v supportive and has offered to contact him.
I know if i try to email him, no matter what I say it will result in a barrage of abuse.
Do I force them to go, do I let them stay with me on his weekend
No court order in place.
Pls help, I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't
TIA

I don't want my hatred of him clouding how I deal with this.
I want my kids to see their dad, want them to be happy.

I don't think telling her that she needs to tell him is on really. He's nasty and abusive. You tell him. Not your partner.

Email him and then block him.

Don't let either go back.

He is already blocked.
I made that decision at Xmas.
I've not told her to tell him, I've told her she should talk to him.
Letting neither go back is what I want to do, but I desperately want them to have a positive relationship with him.
Stopping contact is not what ultimately is best.
I email him, he will respond in anger, my DP has offered to try calmly speak to him, try make him see that they aren't happy.
Knowing him for 17 years, I think he might respond better than if I email him.

My DP would not be critical, or aggressive
He has a DD and has had been on the other side, fought for access through court for his DD, he sees things rationally.
He is v subjective and is certainly not ringing him for a row or to criticise him, but he knows that I am petrified of ex and his response and the fallout if I email him, no matter how calmly I phrase the email

Your DP getting involved will simply fab the flames. You know your ex will see it as him blocking access.

Whatever option you choose do not choose that one

Your daughter is too young to be put in the position of talking to him.

I don’t know the legal ramifications but if there are none, just tell him your daughter doesn’t want to go. Let him enforce visitation through a court order.

What do I do then ?
I don't want to be that parent who stops access, but atm it's not me stopping it, it's what ultimately my DD is telling me, she doesn't want to go.
My DS will go with the flow, he knows what his dad his, but wants to keep the peace, and doesnt really care either way.

I can't communicate with him.

Anything I say is going to anger him.
My DP has offered as he thinks he can appeal to his better nature. Ex has contacted him all friendly over issues before as he knows he is blocked by me.
Ex wouldn't dare be rude to my DP,
as 1, he is a coward who reserves his abuse for me,
Honestly if I didn't show my DP the messages he has sent me in the past it would be like we were discussing 2 different people (he could write the gas lighting hand book)

2 he likes to keep face, he doesn't like anyone thinking he is slipping from the perfect parent role

She can't tell him. She is far too young to be able to deal with an abusive twat like your ex.

You have to tell him the kids won't be going over and then block him. There is no court order, so you aren't in breach of anything.

She is clearly distressed and frightened by him. Don't make her go.

I agree that your DP butting in would be seen as inflammatory to your ex. I also think that while you might desperately want them to have a positive relationship....that's not happening and your DD is being traumatised as it continues.

It's not positive. It's damaging. At her age, a court would listen to her opinion. She probably would not be made to go.

Let him know in email that it won't be happening any longer and then block him.

If he turns up call the police.

Reassure your DD that she has the right to choose and that she's right to look after her own mental health. Praise her for being brave enough to say what she wants. Tell her YOU will deal with it all and he is not going to be able to be part of her life if she does not choose that.

if you have no court order then she doesnt have to go, he will have to apply to the courts for access, and she shouldnt be the one to tell him, she is a CHILD, this is on you, the ADULT! and forcing her to have a "relationship" with someone who is abusive is reinforcing the idea that she has to accept that kind of treatment, which she doesnt and shouldnt!!! also if the house is that bad then she can see that he makes no effort to make her welcome or feel wanted there
she has told you she doesnt want to go there, its dirty and her dad is always angry and grumpy and that she has to walk on egg shells so he doesnt get angry at her..... this is abusive and you know it!!! be the mother, be strong and fucken protect her!!! DO YOUR JOB!

Thank you.
Please know that all I want is the best for them and the relationship they both have with him.
I don't want to stop access, I want the acceesd they have to be positive and happy
You are right in saying I'm putting too much on her.
She was scared, upset and confused.
She said she loves her dad, but isn't happy
I couldn't deal with him, so that's a fair point expecting her to be able to deal with him
I just hoped she could talk to her dad and maybe he would listen.
I don't think stopping access and the whole court thing would be beneficial in the long term.
I hoped that if she expressed it, he might listen
He won't listen to me and I suppose he's not going to listen to my DP.
I'm really not trying to put it on her shoulders, but I know he won't take anything I say on board

I don't want to stop access, I want the acceesd they have to be positive and happy

In the nicest possible way you need to start being realistic about that.

Yes, in an ideal world they’d have a nice, engaged and fun Dad. Their contact would be positive and enjoyable.

However, we don’t live in an ideal world. You know that he’s an angry and unreasonable man. You know this because you’ve seen it. You’re scared of him.

Your daughter is telling you that’s she’s scared of him too.

Why would stopping contact and going to court not be beneficial in the long term? Because if it allows your children to air their wishes about their fears and wants then why is it not beneficial?

I completely understand that you want to have no contact with him. However, your children need you to deal with this. Emailing him to tell him they don’t want to come is something you probably have to do. You can have your partner with you as you write it and read any reply, but your kids need their mum to stick up to them.

If you don’t then who will?

Why don't you want to be the parent that's stops contact?

Why do you insist they have a positive relationship with him. They can't and they've told you this.

They've told you they're scared of him.
.please don't keep protecting him. They need to know what he's capable of, that protects them.

It's not badmouthing, it's safeguarding.

You are promoting him, an abuser. Protecting him, and promoting a relationship for your children with an abuser.

I understand that you are keen to be seen to be doing the right thing, but frankly this is the stuff that keeps abusers having access. It's a horrible pressure that you need to cast off.

Respect your DC first and foremost, his needs don't come into it, he's abusive.

If he kicks off then he can apply for a contact order and you can explain why, but all the services already know.

He doesn't love his DC, he doesn't give a damn, or he would be enjoying being with them,and he sits getting pissed in his kitchen with his new partner instead.

It's hard to accept he's a bad father,but he is, and they don't like it.

Thank you.
The comments you've all made do sting a bit.
I think I've been conditioned by him that I am a shit mum, I know I'm not, but the effects of his behaviour linger.
You are correct that if I couldn't deal with him, why should I expect my DC to be able to.
I've been made to believe that I made it all up.
I'm not saying for 1 min my DC are,
But they are confused. They love him. They don't understand
Bit like I was I suppose.
If I didn't give a shit I would be having a sound night sleep and not lying here worrying.
You are right in me letting my DD thinking that she should put up with shit from a flaky man,
That scares me

I'm taking everything on board.
I don't think I've ever had the confidence in my parenting after the shit he pulled.
If I didn't care desperately about both of them and their well being I wouldn't be seeking advice.
I truly want the best for them.

It really doesn't matter what YOU want. You need to listen to what your CHILD WANTS.

She does not want to see him.

I think it's great that your children don't want to see him anymore. Sounds they are good judges of character and have self respect. Well done for teaching them that. Now please don't undermine it all by encouraging them to go and play happy families with an abusive arsehole who doesn't give a shit about them.

it's what ultimately my DD is telling me, she doesn't want to go.

Then listen to her!!

Why are you saying that you want your children to have a relationship with this man? You mean you want them to have relationship with a reasonable and loving father. Well as you know, this man is neither.

Your daughter's version of her time at his house sounds abusive, neglectful, frightening, disgusting and god knows what else. She is ten years old!

Please do not make her go there.

I am sure he won't take you to court but if he does, that is surely preferable to making that poor child go and stay with this man.

He is never going to be a good father to his kids. Please accept this.

You can't deal with him and have him blocked, which is the right thing to do from what you've described. So why should your children have to or be able to deal with him? I wouldn't make them go. I'd validate them and what they say about him, without slagging him off. Email to tell him, then block him and let him do what he will.

Thank you all.
I've told my DD she is brave telling me and told her I'm proud of her.
I need to email him,
No matter what I say it will cause chaos.
Any ideas on what to write?

What sort of chaos can it cause though? What will he do? If he turns up, call the police.

Just keep the wording simple.

I'm writing to let you know that X and Y will not be continuing with contact because they no longer wish to.

Then block him.

OP - it doesn’t seem like DC will ever have a happy, positive relationship with him because he is not a happy, positive man.

If DD is this distressed at the thought of contact, you absolutely must back her up with this. I know it’s hard, I do.

Make all the agencies involved aware of what happens during contact and how distressed DD is, and that she does not want to go any more.

I honestly would hope that court would not enforce contact not just due to DDs distress but due to the lifestyle your ex and his girlfriend have. That is not a safe, happy, positive environment.

Compose an email, take your time with it and don’t do it in the heat of the moment. Explain how your DD feels, the things she has said to you and ask that you both reach some sort of compromise. It may well be worthwhile asking that he only sees them for a few hours at the weekend preferably away from his home. It does sound as though she’s most uncomfortable in his home, not with him as a person per se (aside from the kitchen drinking).

If he refuses then yes, you can stop access provided you have no court order in place. All he can do is drag you through court to demand access but it’s a long and expensive process so it’s whether you think he’d be arsed to do that really.

Since the only contact he has with you is through a separate email account, it will be very easy to avoid him in future if necessary.

I’m sorry you’re going through this hell, please don’t beat yourself up. You sound like a super mum .