Kids don't want to go to dads

[Brandnewshit]

I'm wondering if anyone can advise
I have 2 dc dd 10 and ds 14.
Backstory as I don't want to drip feed.
Ex was emotionally abusive, split 3 years ago.

Police, SS, GP, coundelling,women's aid, solicitor and school support worker involvement.

I have zero contact since last Xmas, as he continued to be abusive even through a designated separate email account.

When we split he was determined to make the kids hate me, he told me that was his goal, ie malicious reports to ss, ringing my parents, neighbour's etc.

He told me that the DC would eventually hate me.

I have tried to hold my head high, despite him withholding CMS money for the 5 days before he can be reported when we've been struggling, repeatedly brings them home late, pisssing about with not returning clothing I've bought, adding his partners 2 kids (who are 17 and 18) to the CMS claim to reduce money to his own DC.
Not contributing to another penny over the CMS calculated amount.
Just the usual stupid shitty behaviour etc...

I've never bad mouthed him to DC, never stopped access, had to simply explain to them that they will have to wait a bit longer for items they need as I don't have the money.
I am disabled, on every benefit going and struggle, physically emotionally and financially.

Over the last few weeks my DD10 has been v upset about going to her dad's.
She has said she doesn't want to go,
DS14 is borderline on wanting to go
He's at the age where he wants to sit on his Xbox all day and chat to friends online, so where he is doesnt really matter to him
Ex is an angry man, emotionally abusive, hence us splitting, v long backstory.
DD10 has been in tears tonight.
She doesn't want to go to his anymore.
Reasons are... he's angry all the time, doesn't listen to her, sits in kitchen with his current partner drinking and gets cross if they go in kitchen, the house is dirty, in her words, the kitchen is disgusting, smells (Which from the horrible deep fat fryer smell they come home smelling of, I can believe)
His partner has 2 large dogs that have destroyed the house, sofas, carpets, ripped a shower off the bathroom wall, cover her belongings in hair.
She was v upset, asked if she can stay at home this coming weekend instead of going to his.
I don't know what to do, it's obvious that they are seeing him for what he is.

I have purposely never bad mouthed him to them, encouraged them to see him, which to start with they were happy, as he was Disney dad, but they are now realising that he is a waste of space, for themselves
I want them to have s relationship with him.
I'm not the stop access for nothing type of parent.
But what do I do?
She doesn't want to go, DS isn't fussed either way.
I've sat with her tonight, told her get dad loves her, she needs to tell him, but she's scared to tell him as in her words he will get upset and angry.
We have 5 days left of school term, so the school support worker is out of the question.
My new partner is v supportive and has offered to contact him.
I know if i try to email him, no matter what I say it will result in a barrage of abuse.
Do I force them to go, do I let them stay with me on his weekend
No court order in place.
Pls help, I'm damned if I do, damned if I don't
TIA

If her dad gives a shit about your DD he'd be willing to see her away from his horrible house if that was a compromise she was ok with. If he's not then that says all you need to know about him.

Whatever you or anyone tell him, make sure it's in writing. Don't just call

Find out what ds wants, keep dd home with you as she wants to stay. He is abusive, she knows it and she's scared. Stop pushing a relationship when he's blatantly not caring from what she's told you and not being a good dad. He's abusive and neglectful. You would be remiss to ignore her needs. Make a note of what she tells you in case he tries for court.

Id encourage you to see if you can get dd pastoral care at school or someone she can vent to. For her sake, someone neutral to talk to, and yours as a witness to dds choice being her own.

Email your ex. Outline that dd is very upset, she loves him but doesnt want to go to his house. Would she want to see him in a public place or prefer not at all given he may have a go at her?

I have a similar ex. I'd not go into detail. I wouldn't give him anything to fasten onto. I'd say:-

Hello,

Hope you're well.

Just to let you know dd and ds have got loads on over the next few weeks and won't be coming over.

Thanks,

Then I would just leave it that. I wouldn't go into their emotions and upset. He won't care. Let him do what he will from that point - take legal action etc. I don't think he will. These men often don't actually want to parent, they just want to give their ex shit.

I think you need to talk to DD about whether she doesn’t want to see Ex at all or if she doesn’t want to stay in his house.

For example would she want to go out to tea with him one evening? Don’t try to push a relationship with this abusive man, but at the same time don’t make your DD feel that any decision she makes now is irrevocable. She might want to take a break for a while & then only see him for short times away from the house where he is likely to behave better.

In answer to your question about what to say, maybe get your DP to email:

‘Hi Ex,

Brandnew has asked me to let you know that DD won’t be over this weekend. DS will be dropped off as usual.
Regards DP’

I’d give it a couple of missed contacts before raising the issues about the house etc and then offer limited contact if DD wants it. If DS is ambivalent about going, then I wouldn’t discuss it too much with him so if asked he can give Ex the standard teen ‘I dunno’ rather than getting drawn in.

How far is he from you? Could he take your scout for the day so she doesn't have to go to his home which seems to be part of the problem. As an interim measure it may stop him being so angry

Your best bet? Go and get a free half hour with a family law solicitor as soon as possible to discuss the options. If your children don't want to see their Dad then make sure they don't have to. Your DD is obviously scared shitless - do something about it. Don't be the shit Mum your ex accuses you of being.

Please don't follow the advice to get your DP involved.

It's extremely poor advice and could massively escalate this situation.

Take the path of least antagonism.

Like the one about having a lot on over the next few weeks, for you all, so need to have a brief break.

Then don't speak to him again, don't get engaged in further discussion about it, no matter what he says.

If however, he makes any threats atall, then pass these on to police immediately.

This time can be a very risky point of escalation, so be extra careful.

Those dismissing your fears of what chaos could then rain down upon you, are not in your situation, you need to trust your gut about what could happen based on your experiences.

If you feel.something could kick off then warn police that the children have said this and so you will not make them go and you are letting him know they won't be round in the next while.

They might put a marker on your address/phone number as a result as it does raise your risk and is something police are aware of.

Cafcass should listen to a child's views but I worry at 10 they could still propose she goes :(

I personally wouldn't make up a lie about having a lot on because of he solves that problem by saying he'll take to them to whatever then you've got no recourse. Use the email, be v brief. Dear X, DD has requested to not come to yours at the moment, she's not feeling happy or comfortable. If things change I'll let you know '.
Ask your partner to check the email account for any response so you don't have to be exposed to it firsthand and if it is abusive, he can block your ex on it, having first sent a message saying that you won't tolerate bring abused and further contact regarding only necessary logistics can go through him. Then leave it. It's up to him to start court proceedings if he wants to go that route and it doesn't sound like he'd be bothered to.

Do keep your current DP out of it though

You are their DM and any intervention on his part is inappropriate.

Keep it between you the ex and the girls.

Your DC could be at risk by telling him this is what they want. They also might be very scared.

Also contact school to let them know DC have said this and you are acting on it, so you need to make a plan to get them safely, either by going inside to collect them before or after others, or by letting them leave school earlier, temporarily to ensure they do not run into him trying to potentially grab them from school, get them a point of contact in school to go to for support and report anything.

Does he have their phone numbers so he could emotionally blackmail them or have unchecked convos with them? If so, tell DC they don't have to answer calls, better not to, but to all listen to messages together, not respond to texts etc, same.

For info, courts take a very dim view on using third parties in this situation.

Could start with a compromise of dd spending the day but coming back to your for the evening?

I'm waiting for DD school to call me back, one of the safeguarding officers has dealt with ex and knows the story.
She was the one who liased with SS when he made malicious reports.
I'm reading everything everyone has said.
My DP isn't going to get involved.
It was purely because he knows the state I get in when I have to have anything to do with ex.
Yes my DS has a phone, and his dad has a habit of sending him edited and manipulated emails that me and ex have sent in the past.
He claims he is fighting for the truth and exposing the lies bit like Tommy Robinson lol.
But I can't take my son's phone off him.

His father is abusing him through his phone.

Poor lad, that must feel so awkward and difficult being embroiled this way.

No, he needs his phone, but change his number to protect him from any more of this abuse. Mmake copies of all his emails and add them to your evidence.

Nothing wrong with your DP supporting you, thats a positive!

Dd having direct contact with safeguarding, brilliant!

She does want to see him, just doesn't want to stay.
If DS goes without her, he will get grilled all weekend, he got v distressed about this last year when ex was doing this.
I had pastoral support from school involved to give him a safe place to talk
He made it clear he wants " a normal life "
He got the support and courage from them to tell his dad to stop involving him, because his dad wouldn't listen to me when I told him he needed to stop.
I just got a load of verbal abuse.

Keep them safe at home with you mama. Always trust what they are telling you, you know he is abusive, no reason he wouldn't be so with the children. Big hugs X

I think you're doing the right thing keeping them with you. After all they are 100% your no 1 priority. For your dd to be so upset is heartbreaking there no way I could send her and like you say if ds goes he will probably get it tight from him. I'm not even going to pretend I know all the legalities of accest etc but I think you're doing what's best for your dcs

She does want to see him

She THINKS she does because he's her Dad but unfortunately, he's a bastard and abusive.

Children keep loving their parents...even when they abuse them. That's why you need to tell her that he's not in the right place mentally to be a parent so she's not seeing him any more.

Every and any interaction with an abuser leads to abuse in this situation, i.e. withdrawing anything.

The dc are the ones in contact they are the ones that get abuse.

Your ds is being abused via his phone when hes not even with his father!

Change his number and make contact outside the house where they are on view to the public. This is safer for them the more they are in close proximity with a community, that can hear or see things that they can bear witness to and may report.

I was surprised to hear that they stay overnight!

All the services are aware of his behaviour and yet he has dc sleeping over?!

I want them to have s relationship with him.
Why?
He sounds useless as a father.
He's abusive.
He has anger issues.
Your DC have decided for themselves that he is not a nice person.
Listen to them.
Take on board what they are saying.
Please support them in their choices.
He was too vile for you to stay with him and he's too vile for your DC to deal with anymore.

If any email you send will cause trouble, I suggest you tell him what your DC have told you.
The house if vile. It stinks. He shouts at them all the time.
They aren't allowed in the kitchen without being yelled at. He doesn't listen to them. They generally love their dad but just don't like him. They want to see him but don't want to stay over.
Just lay out the facts.
Don't get emotional about it.
Just tell it like it is.
Stop being scared of him.
Stop thinking about him and his emotions.
This is ALL about your DC.

When DD says that she does want to see him but not stay over she could be just telling you what she thinks you want to hear.

Maybe she has picked up from you that she must have a relationship with her Dad, but the fact that she is now telling you that she doesn't want to go there suggests that she is certainly very uncomfortable and finds much of it distressing. This will be because he is a wanker, and she is picking up on that even though she doesn't have the power to do anything about it.

DS is being manipulated by his Dad on his phone. Can you not send yourself copies of the emails to keep as evidence if needed and then block ex from DS's email account (and phone).

I'm no great expert, but I think I would be considering whether or not this contact was actually beneficial to the children at all, and whether or not I was happy with them being in such a situation when they were staying with him (his anger issues, his filthy house, him getting pissed with his girlfriend and wanting to exclude them from the kitchen).

It sounds more like he neglects them and wouldn't know what safeguarding was if he fell over it in the street. Keep them away from him for now, and keep all external agencies informed as to why you are doing so.

The safeguarding officer from the school rang back.
She advised that I need to find out the age cafcass will listen to a child in court, she thought it was 11.
She's going to keep an eye on DD for the rest of the week before they break up.