Advice for a friend who is a father for the first time

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I'm a 28 year old man with a 3 year old son who is my absolute world. I'm seeking advice on a sensitive matter regarding a very good mate of mine. He's 21 and has a month and a half old daughter who he worships, He was with a young woman who is 18 years old, they've split up and have been for around 6-7 months. The issue at hand is very delicate as the woman who gave birth to their child is nothing more than a stuck up snotty teenager! When my mate and "her" broke up they spoke about their daughters first and last name which was only right, now this is where the issues start to fall like dominoes, she said just because they aren't dating anymore their daughter could take his last name as it's only fair he wants to be apart of her life and that is all he wanted. He would message her on occasions regarding her well being seeing as she's the one carrying the child. They knew roughly the due date, the plans for the birth etc, now is where it starts to become a joke as it's all about "her" - my mate was on standby, cancelling plans with friends and family incase the "phone call" for him to make the short trip to the hospital came. Fast forward to the date she actually gave birth, she didn't nor any of her family who we're at the hospital, (mother, father, step father, cousins) ring my mate to notify him of her labour and that she was due to drop, I understand a womans right to privacy but to take that right away from a man attending his daughters birth or even being in the waiting room was such a low blow for him. The matters got worse as their daughter had poo'd inside of her and caused problems which resulted in their daughter being kept in hospital for two weeks. He would ask her if he could go down and see his daughter and his ex would say "no" and that he's not allowed visitation unless she's there as the midwives have told her otherwise" (complete farce and utter lies) - the next day he was anxious, he got dressed, messaged his ex and asked if she was going to the hospital to which she replied "NO" he accepted that and that was that. He then said he would message the next day and see if it was possible to go see his daughter and his ex replied with "just message me tomorrow and we will discuss it" he then did, he waited for a message but never got one back so he contacted her via FB messenger which said she was active but to no avail she was avoiding him, he then contacted her mother as she was with her at the time and she replied back with "her phones in the house and shes not seen his messages "- he disregarded that message and proceeded to the hospital anyways without her say so and asked the midvives if he was allowed to see his daughter and they we're more than happy enough to oblige, upon entering the room his ex was sat there with a smug look on her face and looked very unhappy while sat on her phone which she supposedly didn't have on her. - (she lied to him and didn't anticipate him turning up after she filled his head with lies about turning up without her being there) - now the main matter of it all is now, yesterday she went and got the birth certificate without his knowledge once more, only this time she got it done WITHOUT his name on it, he's been seeing that child 2-3 times per week, providing for her and she's took everything a father should be allowed to experience in favour of her own well being. Now that he's not on the certificate it means he has no parental responsibility, it means she can't demand CSA from him as he's not binded by the certificate in order to do so and yet she uses his daughter as a weapon and uses things like "the main thing is you know she's you're daughter, why you mad over a second name on a bit of paper" her attitude stinks and if she had common sense which she clearly lacks then she would know that he has no say so in whatever life his daughter has as she took all of that away from him. Is there any way he can get his name on to that certficate.. I know it's possible through a court order against his ex but is there any other way? Oh and she also messaged him after she told him about the certificate that the midwives influenced her not to put him on it (I deem this another lie as there's no history which would say otherwise) He's a very nice man, devoted to his daughter, loving caring and has a heart of gold, he's never been controlling, abusive nor jealous of anything she does, she was always free to do what she wanted when she wanted but she ended it as she fell out of love but it was only 3 days before that I spoke to her on the phone and she told me he meant everything to her. I also know she had a fling before my mate with her disabled brothers carer (unprofessional on his part) which her family know nothing about! Everything revolves around her as she's a narcassist, I apologise if there are spelling mistakes, it's 3:30am and I type very fast on my phone. Any replies and advice are welcome.

The CSA don’t require the father to be on the birth certificate. If he denies paternity then they will order a DNA test, but not being on the birth certificate doesn’t mean he can avoid maintenance.

If he was PR then he can apply to court for it.

He wasn’t entitled to be at the birth. Who was in the room when she was going through that was entirely her choice.

Your ‘mate’ should stop focusing on her apparent flaws and focus on his child

In order for him to have been on the birth certificate he would have had to have gone with her to register the baby's birth (due to them not being married).

She sounds like an utter nightmare! He should reach out to father support groups (Pretty sure there's lots out there) for some guidance. I hope your friend is able to work it out.

Fathers 4 Justice is one.

She can still claim maintenance.
Why do you think the baby should have his name?
And yes it's likely the midwives advised her not to have him on the birth certificate. They don't know each other. He could decide he cba parenting then in five years show up at the school with the bc and take the child. He can be added to the bc later.

Why is the fact she's had sex before in anyway relevant.
The fact you think he should have been at the birth is fucking ridiculous.

"nothing more than a stuck up snotty teenager!" - delightful! What do you think THAT statement makes you and your friend?

Why did they split up?

Bear in mind you are only hearing ONE side of what's gone on.

As for the "her" including quotes - are you 12?!! You're certainly not acting your claimed age of 28!

"but to take that right away from a man attending his daughters birth or even being in the waiting room" no such right exists! When it comes to a birthing mother her needs and that of the baby are all that really matter to be honest. She IS very young and even if she weren't ANY birthing mother may well not want their EX at the birth for damn good reasons! Stress can add to birth difficulties, slowing Labour and making complications & intervention more likely.

"proceeded to the hospital anyways without her say so and asked the midvives if he was allowed to see his daughter and they we're more than happy enough to oblige" with absolutely NO PROOF that he was who he claimed, did have a baby there and without checking with the mother?!!

I'd be complaining to that hospital and ward on the basis of shite security! For all they knew he was there for nefarious reasons or was abusive!

"yesterday she went and got the birth certificate without his knowledge once more, only this time she got it done WITHOUT his name on it" which is absolutely her right to do! They're not married so he doesn't have any rights on this automatically. As there's unmarried she can't put his name on the birth Cert if he isn't present anyway.

"he's been seeing that child 2-3 times per week, providing for her" which he should be, and not in order for what he gets out of the situation. I'd love to know what "providing for her" really looks like.

"and she's took everything a father should be allowed to experience in favour of her own well being." She gave birth 6 WEEKS ago! Damn straight her well being and that of the baby's is the priority! Especially when it sounds like the birth was traumatic and baby very sick afterwards. Certainly more important than your mates "poorly hurt feelings"

"Now that he's not on the certificate it means he has no parental responsibility, it means she can't demand CSA from him as he's not binded by the certificate in order to do so" WRONG! And frankly that makes me doubt your claim that he "provides" for his child! She can still claim via CMS (CSA no longer exists) and I hope she does. He doesn't need to be on the birth Cert for that to occur.

As the couple are already separated it makes far more sense practically and legally for the child to have the mothers surname. There's no "right" for a father to insist on their child having their name.

I'd say she's actually behaving very sensibly.

"Oh and she also messaged him after she told him about the certificate that the midwives influenced her not to put him on it (I deem this another lie as there's no history which would say otherwise)" actually that's entirely possible, they'll have met many other mothers who've experienced difficulties as a result of having the ex on the birth Cert and their child having ex's name.

"He's a very nice man, devoted to his daughter, loving caring and has a heart of gold" 🤔 oh yea he sounds it!

"he's never been controlling, abusive nor jealous of anything" you can't POSSIBLY know this for sure, people like that don't go around telling others they're abusive, possessive, controlling gits!

Unless you're actually talking about yourself...

Advice for your mate?

1 grow up

2 get over yourself and lose the ego!

3 pay a decent amount of cm NOT just the cms MINIMUM legally required amount and do it WITHOUT having to be chased

4 build a relationship with your dd - start by treating her mother with respect, patience and understanding NOT bitching like a tantrumming toddler when she makes decisions you don't agree with but which are in her and your daughters best interests "waaaaahhhh it's not faaaaaiiiir"

5 stop bitching to your mates about the mother of your child.

HTH

At least your post has paragraphs, Graphista.

It all sounds very upsetting. However this is what I would suggest.
Mate needs to continue to be there for daughter
Continue to pay support.
Get DNA test done. (If negative he can claim csa back)
Once DNA prices she is his daughter he can get added to birth cert via court.

Personally if I was no longer with the father of child I wouldn't want him there whilst giving birth . it is an absolute bloodbath at times, very scary and it's not a situation where a woman needs to host anybody.

Secondly she is 18 years old and barely an adult so I'm not surprised some of this is not handled greatly. Please cut her some slack.

Not dna prices...i meant dna proves

He still has parental responsibility regardless of the birth certificate.

Is the issue that he’s not named as the child’s father on the birth certificate or that the child doesn’t have his surname? It would be odd to give the child the father’s surname given that it won’t be living with the father and the parents aren’t married. The child should have it’s mother’s surname. However, if the father has been trying to play a role in the child’s life then it seems fair that he should be listed as the father on the birth certificate.

Must be upsetting for him.
Let it be a lesson for him to be more choosy as to who he impregnates in the future.

He wasn’t entitled to be at the birth. He is obliged to pay CSA (and shouldn’t try to avoid this).

There’s no particular reason the baby should have his surname - the mother is the primary carer, it makes a lot more sense for the baby to have her last name than your friend’s.

He needs to limit his interactions with the baby’s mum since they don’t get on and make a standing arrangement for contact. In the meantime, he needs to pay what he owes in maintenance.

This is very new for everyone, and it sounds like the mum has tried to put up boundaries to protect herself at a vulnerable time (during birth and her time in hospital). These might seem very unfair to your friend, but you can see why she would want to do it. Things will settle into a routine with time, as long as your friend is respectful and lives up to his obligations and responsibilities.

Why are you so sensitive? It's my very first post on here and yet you think using language to define you're post is appropriate? Now who lacks class and immaturity? I know the full story as I was around when this was all happening.. I also know he has no legal obligation to be at the birth or on the certificate, I merely pointed out that he was told he could be there for both and she lied to him on both occasions and you think that's okay? They we're together for 3 months before she split up with him, she told him the reason they finished was because she liked someone before him which she said she needed to see through if she was going to be happy. Unfortunately that wasn't the case and she came crawling back and my mate was stupid enough to take her back which was his fault entirely. What follows after that wasn't his fault, once she found out about the pregnancy the first few months we're going well between them even though they weren't together. He would put her health and wellbeing before anybody elses as she's the one carrying his child. They discussed, agreed on the name, they agreed he would be there which she never once had a problem with but she wanted him in the waiting room so he could see her, that was all agreed so I respect her right to privacy but in the end she went back on her word. She made it very clear his daughter could have his last name and once again I'm not stupid enough to believe he has to be on that certificate but I'm stating my personal opinion of why he should be on it seeing as she was the one who told him he could be on it. I was around in person, near him while they were messaging & for him to be so calm and collected for a 21 year old man experiencing some of the stuff she was saying to him was good on his part as many other men would flip the table. How can someone fill his head with being at the birth and having his name on the certificate go back on her word. I'm sure for any man in that position it would be hurtful yet "some" women don't care about the way some men feel. He was messaging her saying things like despite our split up, I want to be there for my daughter, I'll provide for her etc, she even said for him to go and buy a cot for his place so she has a place to sleep when his daughter stays over, after the birth she told him via message that she got him to buy the cot so she could see if he was serious about spending money on his daughter, but she only did it to see for that one reason and has told him he has no chance of him having her.. so that right there is a positive thing is it? He's spent money on things for his place for his daughter which she'll never use as she's not going to be staying there, I would love to see you're reply to that exact part and if you think it's ok in to tricking a man in to spending money on things that turn out to be unnecessary! She was snotty and immature right from the moment they split up, telling him with months to go on the pregnancy that she doesn't want him in her daughters life, she wants him to just leave them both alone, she wants him to rot in hell and that she's surprised he hasn't ran away from his daughter like a lot of men do. He even asked her why she wanted him to walk away from his child and all she could muster up was she wanted to do it alone and that her daughter doesn't need a dad. I'm his only mate who has kids, who's in a healthy 6 year relationship and I'm like a big brother to him
He turns to me for advice and I signed up on here seeking more advice but I get people like you who can't just accept what I've seen and heard but think it's you're full blown right to be disrespectful towards me.. You clearly have issues of you're own which is fine and I'm not one to judge nor will I slate you for. Look, he's 21, she's 18, they both have a daughter and all he's wanting to do is be the best dad possible but she makes it hard for him to succeed at that as she's constantly picking arguments with him over things like what days he can see her, his mothers dying and she picks days that he can't attend on purpose so it looks good on her part and they've fallen out over it as he cares for her. How can she say things to him about the birth and the certificate and go back on her word behind his back.. surely that would make any man emotional seeing as she filled his head for months about being there on both occasions. I had spoken to her multiple times but there was no mixed signals as to how low she would stoop in the end and if you think preying on someones feelings is right for a woman to do then you are very misguided in life.

My advice to him: stop knocking up snotty teenagers.

Thank you for you're honest reply, I understand women have privacy rights and putting up boundaries as it's something a lot of women tend to do which is understandable. I just think the way she's handled the situation with being hostile towards him isn't fair. She hasn't said anything about him paying maintenance as she's already made it clear she doesn't want it done legally and that he provides nappies and wipes along with many other things which he is doing anyways. I know some women in the past who have said the same thing and 3 years later they decide to do it out of the blue. I'm literally only on this to get positive advice and that is it, I'm 28 and not looking to argue with people as it's immature and unwarrented. :)

In all fairness I went daft with him for having unprotected sex which was both their faults to begin with.. if they took precautions then none of this would have happened but the damage has already been done, yet he's came out of it the more mature one.

You've clearly ignored my advice despite being the only person not giving you shitty replies

Oh and as for visiting the hospital to see his daughter he attended the day after the birth but it was a few days after that she told him she wasn't seeing her daughter and thay he couldn't see her as she isn't there either. The midwives already knew he was the father because they kept tabs on both parents from scans and there was some complications along the way so they knew who he was so that should clarify things up, My apologies for not putting that in.

Oh look it's that word again. Everything revolves around her as she's a narcissist

No she isn't. Its incredibly rare, rarer to be diagnosed, and the majority of diagnosis are male. So put the armchair psychology away.

Long and the short of it
Firstly and most importantly:

• he needs lessons on how to use a condom
• take himself off to the GUM clinic just in case

Secondly:

• he needs a DNA test (in the light of your comments about shagging the carer

Then:

• he needs to take her to court for PR.
• he needs to take her to court for access
• he needs to make sure he doesn't hide his earnings and pay at least the minimum, CSA - and pay it via a traceable route eg straight to her bank account thus ensuring he cant back claim
• keep all her texts
• do not be drawn into text wars

That's a pretty standard list for starters .

Irrelevant whether he accompanied her to the hospital, whether the midwives knew him of not - she DIDNT want him there - end of the matter. I agree on the face of it that it is unfair and he will never get those days back BUT he needs to stop dwelling on that and move this forward.

No no I'm just getting the agressive replies out of the way, I do apologise for not messaging you first to be honest. You're advice will help and I can pass that along, at least theres some people out there with a little understanding of what I was implying. I should have worded it slightly better but I was tired as I couldn't sleep.

You need to be less involved than you are. If you are this negative about the mother of his child to him the situation will never get better.

She had every right to change her mind about the birth plans and the surname.

He can get PR if he applies to the court.

A DNA test is easily done.

If I was the mothers family I'd be annoyed she was pregnant with someone she barely knew, annoyed at both of them. The reality though is I'd want my daughter to do what was best for her, then the baby.

He's not dwelling on it but I understand you're point, he was stupid not to use protection.

He's accepted that he wasn't at the birth but was pretty bummed out that she told him last week they needed to set a date for them to get their daughter registered. That happened yesterday but she never bothered to tell him until she arrived home and then informed him.

When my mate and "her" broke up

Is she not really a “she”?