Advice for a friend who is a father for the first time

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I'm a 28 year old man with a 3 year old son who is my absolute world. I'm seeking advice on a sensitive matter regarding a very good mate of mine. He's 21 and has a month and a half old daughter who he worships, He was with a young woman who is 18 years old, they've split up and have been for around 6-7 months. The issue at hand is very delicate as the woman who gave birth to their child is nothing more than a stuck up snotty teenager! When my mate and "her" broke up they spoke about their daughters first and last name which was only right, now this is where the issues start to fall like dominoes, she said just because they aren't dating anymore their daughter could take his last name as it's only fair he wants to be apart of her life and that is all he wanted. He would message her on occasions regarding her well being seeing as she's the one carrying the child. They knew roughly the due date, the plans for the birth etc, now is where it starts to become a joke as it's all about "her" - my mate was on standby, cancelling plans with friends and family incase the "phone call" for him to make the short trip to the hospital came. Fast forward to the date she actually gave birth, she didn't nor any of her family who we're at the hospital, (mother, father, step father, cousins) ring my mate to notify him of her labour and that she was due to drop, I understand a womans right to privacy but to take that right away from a man attending his daughters birth or even being in the waiting room was such a low blow for him. The matters got worse as their daughter had poo'd inside of her and caused problems which resulted in their daughter being kept in hospital for two weeks. He would ask her if he could go down and see his daughter and his ex would say "no" and that he's not allowed visitation unless she's there as the midwives have told her otherwise" (complete farce and utter lies) - the next day he was anxious, he got dressed, messaged his ex and asked if she was going to the hospital to which she replied "NO" he accepted that and that was that. He then said he would message the next day and see if it was possible to go see his daughter and his ex replied with "just message me tomorrow and we will discuss it" he then did, he waited for a message but never got one back so he contacted her via FB messenger which said she was active but to no avail she was avoiding him, he then contacted her mother as she was with her at the time and she replied back with "her phones in the house and shes not seen his messages "- he disregarded that message and proceeded to the hospital anyways without her say so and asked the midvives if he was allowed to see his daughter and they we're more than happy enough to oblige, upon entering the room his ex was sat there with a smug look on her face and looked very unhappy while sat on her phone which she supposedly didn't have on her. - (she lied to him and didn't anticipate him turning up after she filled his head with lies about turning up without her being there) - now the main matter of it all is now, yesterday she went and got the birth certificate without his knowledge once more, only this time she got it done WITHOUT his name on it, he's been seeing that child 2-3 times per week, providing for her and she's took everything a father should be allowed to experience in favour of her own well being. Now that he's not on the certificate it means he has no parental responsibility, it means she can't demand CSA from him as he's not binded by the certificate in order to do so and yet she uses his daughter as a weapon and uses things like "the main thing is you know she's you're daughter, why you mad over a second name on a bit of paper" her attitude stinks and if she had common sense which she clearly lacks then she would know that he has no say so in whatever life his daughter has as she took all of that away from him. Is there any way he can get his name on to that certficate.. I know it's possible through a court order against his ex but is there any other way? Oh and she also messaged him after she told him about the certificate that the midwives influenced her not to put him on it (I deem this another lie as there's no history which would say otherwise) He's a very nice man, devoted to his daughter, loving caring and has a heart of gold, he's never been controlling, abusive nor jealous of anything she does, she was always free to do what she wanted when she wanted but she ended it as she fell out of love but it was only 3 days before that I spoke to her on the phone and she told me he meant everything to her. I also know she had a fling before my mate with her disabled brothers carer (unprofessional on his part) which her family know nothing about! Everything revolves around her as she's a narcassist, I apologise if there are spelling mistakes, it's 3:30am and I type very fast on my phone. Any replies and advice are welcome.

Honestly, I think she’s being sensible. How many women on MN agree to have the father of the baby on the birth certificate and give the baby his last name only for him to hightail it out of their lives? Your friend may never do this but the mother has been sensible to put her own interests first. She’s going to be the one caring for the baby most of the time.

Your friend must also have known that he wouldn’t have the baby overnight while it’s still a baby, so why buy the cot?

I feel sorry for him but a lot of your post is about him being annoyed that his preferences aren’t being prioritised. But the mother of the baby doesn’t yet know how responsible he is going to be - she has to put the baby’s needs first and prepare for the worst from your friend, just in case that’s what happens. Your friend will have to prove to her that he is going to continue to be responsible and respectful for the long term. He isn’t in a position to demand that she trust him or that she puts him first.

Your friend may be the exception but mumsnet proves how many shitty deadbeat dads there are out there. It’s not the baby’s mum’s fault that she can’t assume he won’t be one of them.

He should pay csa, get a dna test and a contact schedule done through the courts. she’s not going to wake up tomorrow and decide to let him see the child!
He should be paying csa because the child still needs looking after and he should of had protected sex if he didn’t want to be a dad. Sex = baby it’s not rocket science

If you aren’t really the dad posting this and trying to be anonymous then you’re too involved in it and need to step back, there’s such an angry tone.

I'm not involved the way it comes across, I haven't spoken to her since early December. I tend not to get involved, I'm only wanting advice on the matter and where he stands. It's a two way thing between those two and I can only give my mate positive advice on how to keep calm in situations like these.

I only signed up to get some advice and straight up opinions that was all but it seems like I've provoked a lot of people on here which was never my intention to begin with, I'm sorry for that.

It's just frustrating that the whole parenting thing is the way it is and that there isn't many rights for men.

He's also kept all the texts and I think passing the information on about the DNA test is a positive option as he can see for sure that she is his. I'm not sure if she slept with her brothers carer before getting with my mate or after they split up the first time before he was stupid enough to take her back, all I know is they've known one another for years so it could have been back then but saying that it's very unlikely.

Oh yeah I understand you're point and I agree with a lot of it. The comment about the cot wasn't about him having his daughter straight up after birth, it was for when she was like 1-2 years old as it was one of those adjustable cot beds but she outright said he would never have her over night regardless.

I don’t under the animosity towards this poster? Is it because he’s a man?

The girl sounds like many girls I’ve encountered and as a midwife, we would definitely NOT recommend them to keep the father off the birth certificate to whoever said it was possible. That’s ridiculous.

1. He should contact the CMS and sort out paying child maintenance officially. This limits arguements. Anything else he buys when the baby is staying at her mother's will be extra and not part of the child maintenance.
2. He should apply to the court for parental responsibility.
3. Then he should try to sort out with her child arrangements:

a. Informally taking in the fact that the baby is under 6 months. b. If she starts being difficult once the baby is over 6 months then he needs to try mediation before going to court.

In regards to naming the children - as an unmarried mother you can name the child what you like. The father can only offer suggestions but it is the mother's complete decision.

When I phoned up to register my child I was just given a date and time to attend with no choice of appointments, so if my partner wasn't around then he wouldn't be on the birth certificate.

My partner regards men who don't understand about naming and birth certificates as bloody idiots especially if they have more than one child.

The issue at hand is very delicate as the woman who gave birth to their child is nothing more than a stuck up snotty teenager!

She is 18. What did he expect?

It sounds like you are over involved in this situation with your friend. Saying things like

Isn’t helpful. Most adults are capable of reacting calmly to a situation and looking at the bigger picture- don’t make out to your friend that he is some sort of saint and that a more common reaction would be to “flip out”. You could be goading him into doing that.

He is probably looking to you for a more mature perspective. It sounds like you are getting caught up in their interpersonal drama. You demonstrate a misogynistic streak here with some of your comments about ‘women’. Your friend’s situation isn’t about ‘women’- it’s about a teen mother and a young father.

What a previous poster said is true - you are only hearing one side of things. Perhaps she doesn’t want him to send her messages on Facebook or call her mother. Perhaps she feels overwhelmed and doesn’t want regular communications with him. She has just has just given birth and her baby ended up in ICU. From her perspective, it probably makes sense for her to focus on herself and the baby right now. She may not be ready to make long term plans.

Right now, he should focus on taking small steps towards building a relationship with his child. Maintenance, birth certificate etc can all be sorted out down the line.

My advice would be that he should reduce his communications with her and only keep them brief and about visits. His mother may be dying, but this new teenage mother of his child could be having good days and bad days of her own! Who is she trying to ‘make things look good on her part’ in front of?

If she says a day doesn't suit, he could say OK, I’ll get back in touch to rearrange the visit. No need for arguments.

Then over time, they can start to make a plan about what approach they want to take about frequency of visits, getting into a routine etc.

If in time this doesn’t happen, he can go through the courts to formalise contact.

It's just frustrating that the whole parenting thing is the way it is and that there isn't many rights for men.

You're looking at it the wrong way. It should be all about the child and the child's rights.

Tell your friend that when you become a parent it stops being all about you. From now on he has to make the child's needs a priority.

He needs to go through courts to set up access.

And surely it goes without saying that he should pay for his child.

I appreciate you're reply, I worded a lot of things differently and I should have maybe worded it better had I slept.

Yeah his ex girlfriend said that she was advised by multiple midwives not to put him down on the birth certificate but she was 100% adamant she wanted him on it.

I know they we're both stupid to have unprotected sex, & I'm all for womens privacy but because I worded things like "he has an entitlement to be there" which I know he doesn't legally but I went off the basis that she was more than happy enough to have him there both times. She obviously changed her mind and didn't notify him till afterwards but if she had notified him first then I think the outcome may have been a better one in my opinion.

Yeah I definitely agree, they both had their heart set on the name which was something.

I'll pass on your advice to him so he's aware of it all and as for registering the child some places do walk-ins.. When I registered my son with his mother we didn't need an appointment. My mate and his ex girlfriend didn't book theirs so she just went in without his knowledge and did it.

Thanks for posting.

He shouldn’t be annoyed about the name on the BC. It is completely right for the baby to have their mums last name if their parents aren’t together, for many legal reasons. Not being told about the birth/being allowed to see the baby is wrong, however it isn’t wrong that he wasn’t asked to be a birthing partner, they clearly don’t get along very well and that’s not what you need when you’re giving birth.

I think both of them sound immature, they clearly aren’t thinking about their baby and are arguing with each other. My advice would be to tell your friend to get over what has happened now, he can’t change it. And have an actual conversation with the mother about what’s happing with maintenance and custody.

Absolutely should be the Mother surname on the birth certificate in this situation.

It's just frustrating that the whole parenting thing is the way it is and that there isn't many rights for men.

Until men carry and birth babies, rights can't be equal for mums and dads. The baby has been living in mum for 9 months and mum has gone through a massive emotional and physical upheaval. It is in the interests of both that they are prioritized in the early days.

The legal process is slow so your friend should start now. By the time that it sorts itself out, the baby should be ready for some contact.

He needs to take what she says with a pinch of salt. Whether it's because she's hormonal because of pregnancy and birth or because she's a teenager whose brain hasn't fully developed, we don't know. Perhaps she was planning on keeping her promises but has someone else in her ear?who knows? She has shown that she can't really think about his feelings so he really should get the legal stuff in order (time goes fast)

With regards to the birth certificate she did the right thing by giving her surname and not his. She could have considered his surname as a middle name but she would have been stupid to not have her surname at all. It's much easier to have the same surname as your child eg at airports and if the baby has siblings in future then they'd both have the same surname.

Most importantly your mate needs to think about his behaviour. He is 50% responsible for this situation by not using contraception. Interested to know what a 21yo first time dad considers support. If it's CMS minimum in cash then that's the legal minimum.

The comment you seemed to have highlighted was taken out of context but I understand what it is you mean.

I know it's all about the child and he even knows that, what I meant by it was the way men have no rights about getting their name on the certificate if they are the ones sticking around to raise their children.

I dislike the people who don't provide for their kids as they are sole priority and that's the way it should always be.

Thank you for posting.

Yeah definitely, it is immature of them both. He is seeing his child on set days throughout the week and she's already discussed that he can see his daughter from 12 noon till 3:30pm which is a fair amount of time.

When his daughter was released from hospital she wasn't letting him feed her, hold her and it was having a big impact on him as a father as he wasn't getting to experience that.

I will however pass these comments along to him so he gets a better of understanding of how parenting works. I think it's important to try and build some sort of communication between the two so both of them aren't at each others throats day in and day out.

YABU. YABVU for typing “poo’d”. wtf is that

Your mate needs court ordered contact. Simple as that. Hopefully he isn't one of those men that whinge about their child's mother but does nothing at all about it.

You're seeing this from a very one sided point of view, I suspect she she would give a very different story and somewhere in the middle would be nearer the truth.

She hasn't done anything wrong by changing her mind about things, often things look very different when you're in the situation rather than looking at it from a distance.

She sounds like a young woman getting conflicting advice and trying to do her best.

18 year olds change their minds.

I'd be interested to hear her description of what's been going on.

Please stop going on about her having slept with someone else at some point when she wasn't with your mate, absolutely no one here cares and it sounds a bit weird.

If your mate really wants to parent his child he should show some compassion towards the 18 year old who has just gone through a traumatic birth. Even if her behaviour irritates him, he needs to hide that. He needs to be polite and considerate and supportive, and if that doesn't work he should take some legal advice and follow it.

My mate does look up to me, I've not gave him advice that could have any impact on his strained relationship with his daughters mother. The only advice I've gave him is remain calm, don't go doing anything stupid and keep the messages that she's sent you.

I also said if he has to go to court to have any contact with his child then that is something he may have to do, He's understood that and I said it's not an easy thing to go through. I've never gave him misguided advice and I have no contact with his ex either, I don't use social media nor do I have her number. He sends me screen shots of him messaging calmly and in return she would be hostile for no reason.

OP you will never get balanced advice on MN because you’re a bloke asking advice for a bloke. However, there are a few who are talking sense.

Tell him to go through court otherwise she’ll treat him like a mug for years. Yes it’s a pain in the arse but on the flip side will make her life difficult to

I read as far as “the right of a man to be at his daughters birth” and noped the fuck out.

Piss off with that shit!

The father has no right to be at the birth. He has no right to assume his wish for the baby to have his name is more important that hers.

He is entitled to be named on the birth certificate though, and can go through court to arrange this via DNA test.

I think your friend should be more focused on his child's needs and rights than his own.

Is your 'friend', in fact, you, OP?

Why should his name have been on the birth certificate?

...and by 'his name' I mean 'his surname for the baby'. If he wanted his actual name next to the bit where it says 'father' then he needed to be there.

I think it's important to remember that they're both really young, try not to get too hung up on what's already happened. He should get legal advice on where he stands for access etc and make sure he sticks to it. One day his daughter will make up her own mind about him so he should help make sure she has positive interactions with him.