To not understand graduations?

[notjustanexpat]

I have several degrees. Always attended graduation in person, because family and DP were excited to attend and "see me graduate". I did not hate it but also gained nothing from it, besides getting the physical degree earlier than I would have if it were mailed.

I will also happily attend other people's graduation ceremonies and cheer for them. If it is important to them, of course I will be there to celebrate them!

But I do not get it. Why would anyone want to travel back to their place of study and spend a small fortune, to sit around an overheated hall for 2h just to walk on a stage for less than 30 seconds. Why not go out and have nice local dinner instead, or throw a big local party?

If you're still living where you studied, sure, why not - but most people I know moved away in between finishing the course and the graduation ceremony. I always had to travel and/or pay 1-2 months rent when I could have been elsewhere, actually working.

I get the desire to celebrate getting a degree but the ceremony is just beyond me. I have already graduated. If I don't attend, the degree is still signed - the ceremony is only symbolic!

My PhD graduation will be next year and DH + family are really excited to attend. Travel time, one-way: 3.5h(us), 10h (family). Money: min. £300 for us, probably 4 digits per person for my family.

I am seriously considering to graduate in absentia, have a local party with family after finishing any corrections (all family live in the same place) and have a nice dinner with DH the day the degree comes through.

AIBU?

My child is the first in the family to graduate. We own our own business and have hardly ever been free for assemblies, sports days and other moments in the school year.
Graduation will be the one time we close the business, hold hands and clap the achievements of one of the children together. I can’t imagine how we will feel. We have done it.
Can you imagine why we might feel pure joy.

Each to their own. I have such happy memories of mines. It was a day to celebrate my achievement. The happiest memory was after all the degrees had been handed out and we were ready to proceed out, there was meant to be a polite clap. Instead, there was a rapturous, escalating applause of such joy and relief from the audience! It was a really happy memory, uniting the group that I had spent five years with.

I went to my degree graduation for my mum and dad and my PhD graduation for them and my then partner who put up with me through it. Didn't do anything for me personally but I saw it was symbolically important for my loved ones.

As for people without PhDs saying it is routine or straightforward I say "then do one". I had a former colleague who kept saying he could have done a PhD until one of my other PhD-bearing colleagues said "I'm sure you could have, but you didn't".

What I don't understand are "graduations" from nursery or primary school. Makes me cringe

My daughter said she got her degree despite the university 😂
We never bothered going to the ceremony and neither did she
We didn’t feel we/she needed to pay a boatload of money just to get a bit of paper in her hand.
We already knew she was clever.

Absolutely mushroomwall

Couldn’t agree more.. I’m proud of my dd but have a nightmare day with my ex (her dad) to look forward to as dd is insisting on my dh (stepdad) sitting in main hall with me as opposed to her dad..

YANBU to not want to go to your own graduations.

I think graduations are great fun. We’ve gone to all of our kids so far and have thoroughly enjoyed everyone of them. The gowns and the pomp and ceremony are all a bit silly but it’s good to have an event to mark receiving a degree. If that’s not your thing or if it’s too expensive then you can just do something else. It doesn’t matter does it. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I just see it as a great excuse to get together with the kids. We dress up, attend the graduation, do photos and go for meals. It’s all good.

I wouldn’t mind if one of my kids didn’t want to.

I’d feel sorry if people couldn’t afford to attend their kids graduation.

They are free at Oxford

You have to pay £40 for the MA ceremonies.

@CollaterlyS1sters why are you getting so emotional? We did the wedding to make her happy. It’s normal to do things you loathe to make your parents happy-it was a very small wedding. Not really a big deal.

I can’t do one while I have children because I have to pay their school fees instead of throwing money at a degree that won’t pay off (not going into international law so no point in having anything beyond a masters (when you add up the costs of tuition-although maybe I could take out a loan but not keen on taking out debt for no reason- plus commuting/moving plus not being in work for even longer it ends up being tens of thousands of pounds a year. I’ve already spent a lot on the degree that I’m doing now but I’ve been working throughout here and there and the children are still young enough for their fees plus my fees to be manageable).

And I did explain that I know a lot of people who were/are in careers where it’s necessary to have one. Lots of lectures and scientists. They are all friends with each other so if you are friends with one you end up being friends with ten. And then half my family were academics so they all had them as well. And then there are a few people who are just really smart and did one because they really wanted to (but they were actually able to use it because they were at the top of their profession so it was useful). Surely you can see why I don’t find PhDs even remotely exciting by this point?

As a side note I spoke to DH. Apparently he didn’t go to any of his graduations despite having a somewhat less than routine PhD experience. Apparently they call every single person that graduates so it’s waste of time 🤷‍♀️. As you can see I’ve found the only person on earth who is even less sentimental than me.

I am just not the kind of person that gets excited much. I’m not overly sentimental. Obviously I do these things for others but OP came on here saying she didn’t get graduations and I agreed not expecting anyone to take offence because why would they? Not everyone has to be the same. I don’t know what you want me to say. Oooh yes, it’s such a big deal to do something that 25k people do every single year?

@BogglesGoggles We did the wedding to make her happy. It’s normal to do things you loathe to make your parents happy-it was a very small wedding. Not really a big deal.

Nope. It's not normal. It's bizarre behaviour to have a wedding and claim that you 'suffered all the way through it' but apparently 'had to do it' for your MIL. Whom you hate.

You haven't explained what was the incredible power she had over you that forced you to 'suffer' (your words) through this appalling ordeal of having a wedding. Money, I guess.

I can’t do one while I have children because I have to pay their school fees instead of throwing money at a degree that won’t pay off

What a shame you're not academically strong enough to be funded to do one. I had all my fees paid plus all of my living costs. It was lucrative.

I am just not the kind of person that gets excited much. I’m not overly sentimental. Obviously I do these things for others but OP came on here saying she didn’t get graduations and I agreed not expecting anyone to take offence because why would they? Not everyone has to be the same. I don’t know what you want me to say. Oooh yes, it’s such a big deal to do something that 25k people do every single year?

You really haven't read any of my posts, have you? I've never been to a graduation ceremony. I think that pretending you had a wedding for the sake of your MIL, whom you hate, is embarrassing.

And no one objected to you saying that graduation ceremonies are a waste of time. I believe that's the consensus on this thread. It was your ludicrous comment that (were you actually able to get one) you wouldn't consider it 'a big deal' that got people's backs up.

In fact it was such a patently stupid and goady comment that I had to advance search you to see if you were an actual troll. But apparently not. Just someone who's so busy with their 'law degree' that they've posted on Mumsnet more than 500 times in the past two months.

I went to the ceremony for my first degree. Hated every moment. Part of me wanted to because it took me bloody ages to get it but I didn't go for my second and I won't when I graduate next year.

DP has graduated four times and never been to any of his. I took him out to celebrate when he graduated with his Phd. We both hate ceremonial nonsense and no, we're not married either (although a degree is far more of an achievement than getting married IMO). He was the first in his family to go to university. I was the second in mine.
I can't really think of any ceremonies that aren't pointless.

I went to my first because my parents reeeeeaaally wanted it even though I was pleased to get out of my uni town and head home (25 years later and never been back!). However I did my masters whilst working, enjoyed the experience immensely and felt a huge sense of pride in what I’d achieved so was happy to celebrate the moment with classmates, and family. Just do what you want to do, it’s your moment!

@collarteryS1sters

What is your problem? It’s normal to do things you hate to make family happy. I have done it for all of my family members. Most people who hate weddings/birthdays/churches in general have done this at some point. I’m not pretending. We were going to just get married but she got upset and it wasn’t worth the inconvenience.

As for funding my opportunities are limited (international) and even if I received full funding it would never cover the £40-70k deficit of not working. Simply can’t afford it until children are not longer needing school fees.

And I mumsnet on the train on my way to work-seeing as it’s summer my studies aren’t exactly keeping me occupied-weirdthat you know that?

You really need to call down. I have rested over and over again that I just find most things quite routine. It’s not offensive or goady to say that a PhD isn’t special like a noble prize or something. I’ve never got excited over normal human experiences and achievements even when they have been on the more exceptional end of the scale. Many people are like that. That’s why many people don’t go to graduations. Obviously there are sometimes contextual factors (like being the first person in your family, doing something really ground breaking etc) that would make something fairly routine a big deal but none of that will ever apply to me.

I’ve graduated twice and I do agree although it is a nice celebration for family if they like that sort of thing.

It's so bizarre to describe completing a PhD as routine especially when you've not been through it yourself.

It's fine not to want to celebrate it publicly or to not get excited by ' normal human experiences'. I get excited about lots of things but I still have perspective. Having completed a PhD myself and spent the last few years supporting my DH through his I can assure you it's not routine. It's quite ignorant to suggest it is......I imagine the statement is delivered with an eye roll.

@BogglesGoggles

@collarteryS1sters

I'm going to assume this is aimed at me. Try copy and paste if the name's too tricky.

What is your problem? It’s normal to do things you hate to make family happy. I have done it for all of my family members. Most people who hate weddings/birthdays/churches in general have done this at some point. I’m not pretending. We were going to just get married but she got upset and it wasn’t worth the inconvenience.

Nope. Never known anyone who had an entire wedding just to please a family member whom they have said repeatedly that they hate.

Guess it's the money then.

As for funding my opportunities are limited (international)

Odd. Most of my fellow PhD students were not from the UK and they were all funded.

Simply can’t afford it until children are not longer needing school fees.

We have an amazing thing here called state education. But then I'm not motivated by money.

And I mumsnet on the train on my way to work-seeing as it’s summer my studies aren’t exactly keeping me occupied-weirdthat you know that?

Weird that you mumsnet at all hours of the day and night given that you are apparently working full time, studying part time, and looking after several children.

It’s not offensive or goady to say that a PhD isn’t special like a noble prize or something.

No one has ever (bizarrely) said that a PhD is the same as a noble [sic] prize. Why on earth would they?

You coming on to this thread to proclaim that (if you had a PhD, which you don't) you wouldn't mark the occasion because "half of the people you know have one", you "were always going to get a degree", and it's just so "routine" that it's "weird" to want to celebrate it unless someone had "struggled" academically, is, however, not only offensive and goady but also very, very stupid.

Imagine thinking you'd invite people to watch you get married, which half a million people do per year in this country, but that it would be 'weird' to celebrate something that 25,000 people achieve each year!

Ummm, I don't think this logic stacks up. I don't think the desire to celebrate something with family and friends has any relation to how rare it is. Otherwise noone would bother with birthdays would they?

My marriage might not be unusual, but it is still more important than my PhD. It is also a more social thing: it redefines families, realigns friendships. It is a huge part of how I live my life in public as well as private. A wedding also has lots of traditions and social conventions attached to it which - up to a point - I enjoyed following.

A PhD is just an academic qualification. A high level and relatively unusual one, but not more than that. I really wasn't particularly fussed about a graduation ceremony - though would have attended if it had been convenient.

My marriage might not be unusual, but it is still more important than my PhD.

Whereas for me, my wedding was completely irrelevant, as was the fact of my marriage we had been together for many years before getting married for a pressing practical reason, and while my relationship is very important, the fact of having married my longterm partner isn't and my DPhil represented the culmination of a lot of work and the beginning of an academic career.

I did actually attend my graduation ceremony, though I wasn't particularly bothered either way, and my parents came from our home country, but when DH and I got married we just did it with two witnesses and skipped the ceremonial.

Btw, it's a Nobel Prize, not a noble prize.

And of course a PhD is something that isn't a huge deal in Academia. Or something to stop the press about. But it's still a quite significant milestone for everyone I know who've completed one.
It's certainly not routine at all.

I can empathise with not wanting to go. I've been doing a distance degree and will not be bothering with the ceremony. It doesn't help that - coincidentally - the uni is close to the here I grew up so the ceremony is due to be held in the church where all my old school hymn services were held!

I think I'll give that day a miss but hope everyone else who goes has a lovely day.

Whereas for me, my wedding was completely irrelevant, as was the fact of my marriage -- we had been together for many years before getting married for a pressing practical reason

To be honest, I was fairly indifferent about whether we actually got married or not. It was DH's call. But having decided to do it, I wanted to make it into a significant event to bring together family and friends, otherwise there really didn't seen to be any point to it at all! (though I now realise there are inheritance tax reasons etc. I didn't at the time)

And you could use a graduation as an excuse for an event like that. But most people would consider it a bit unusual...I seems like more of an individual event and achievement than a community thing.

Clearly there is no right or wrong about this. The only thing that is wrong it to say it is "weird" to celebrate a graduation, or not to celebrate it. Ditto a marriage.

Clearly there is no right or wrong about this. The only thing that is wrong it to say it is "weird" to celebrate a graduation, or not to celebrate it. Ditto a marriage.

Agree completely.

For me, my PhD was the culmination of years of hard work in very challenging circumstances, whereas getting married was a meaningless legal formality.

I didn't celebrate either one publicly. But I don't judge anyone who does. Each to their own.

What I do judge is someone who denigrates other people's achievements and hard work - particularly when it's something they haven't even managed to do themselves- by saying that it's so 'routine' that it would be 'weird' to even mention it.

That's just ignorant, idiotic and insulting.

@irregularegular
I must say though that I don't understand this:

[Marriage] is also a more social thing: it redefines families, realigns friendships. It is a huge part of how I live my life in public as well as private

I don't understand why marriage would redefine your friendships or affect how you live your life in public and private.

I don't understand why marriage would redefine your friendships or affect how you live your life in public and private.

Realign, not redefine.

Not marriage as such, but the relationship itself and the decision to make it primary and permanent; to live as a team/partnership.

Don't you find that all important relationships have that effect? I don't think one relationship can be kept separate from another, and certainly not the one with your partner. Living as a couple is different from living as a single person, surely?? It affects all your decisions about work, family etc etc From the trivial (how often have you seen people on this site being offended because their partner is not invited to an event with them), to the fundamental (how to prioritise an partner in need versus a parent in need, say) to the obvious (whether you have sex with anyone else)

So yes, it is not the marriage per se, it is the relationship. Maybe that was the misunderstanding. But when you get married you are making a public statement about that relationship and its importance, which I think does affect things.

In contrast having a PhD has no effect at all on social expectations, who I prioritise, or who I have sex with. Only what jobs I am qualified for.