To be in two minds about the chicken pox vaccine

[trippingovertoysinthedark]

I’m really on the fence with this one.

On the one hand, I have two preschool children in full time childcare and a SE partner. Financially, we could be in trouble if we had to take time off work to look after them if/when they get chicken pox. Also, I don’t want them to be unwell.

However, on the other hand, them being unwell now might set them up for lifetime immunity and that would probably be ultimately better than the vaccine when it wanes - I’m also not a fan of vaccinating children when it isn’t needed, as vaccine damage can happen and yes tiny chance blah blah but why take that chance if you don’t have to? Although I haven’t read of any adverse reactions to the pox vaccine but then would I be likely to?

So I’m dithering here

Does anyone have any advice on vaccinations for adults? The NHS website says the vaccine is less effective for adults.

My 21 year old has never had chicken pox. I'm not sure about the 19 year old. She had about 3 spots when she was about 2 but they disappeared after a couple of days and I was never really sure if they were CP or not. I'm wondering whether they should both be vaccinated to be on the safe side.

My oldest daughter got chicken pox before the vaccine was available. She developed the complication of thrombocytopenia and spent a week in the hospital having platelet transfusions. My youngest son definitely got the vaccine!

The thing about vaccines is that they don't just protect your kids, they protect anyone your kids might come into contact with, such as elderly people, people with autoimmune diseases who take medicines that lower their autoimmunity such as Embrel, cancer patients who are on chemo, premature babies, and many others.

If I immunise, my dc could pass on the virus - well potentially, according to the Boots website. I can't keep him away from anyone at risk of chickenpox for 12 weeks! That's longer than if he actually had the illness.
On rare occasions, people who have received the chickenpox vaccine can transmit the infection to others. If you’re very likely to come into contact with pregnant women or those with a weakened immune system, you should avoid any such contact during the period between vaccinations and for four to six weeks after the second dose

I don't want my children to grow into adults who could potentially contract CP for the first time when the vaccine wears off. We don't know whether or not that will be the case but I do not want to take that risk, so I will not vaccinate them and hope they both contact it as toddlers. Statistically it's incredibly likely they will have a mild, unpleasant episode and then we'll all move on.

I am staunchly pro-vaxx btw before anyone accuse me of any nonsense.

I just had the vaccine at 45, @Fifthtimelucky. I have a primary school aged child who’s also avoided it so far, despite it going around his class, and I don’t want to risk having it badly. I talked to my GP at length and his advice was to get the vaccine, and get the shingles vaccine at 60.

I had chicken pox as a child. I was really ill. I remember it! I do have scars. They aren’t exactly noticeable, say if you just saw me in the street, but they are there. And my DM caught it from us and apparently was extremely ill (I don’t remember that part). My DH had it as an adult and it was truly awful. 2 weeks off work and then another 2 weeks at least to feel back to normal. And he has scars from it.

We are in the US at the moment so my DC are vaccinated as routine and im happy with that. Ive not heard anyone talk of their DC having chicken pox, I think it’s been practically irradiated here due to the vaccinations. DS wouldn’t be able to go to nursery if he wasn’t vaccinated.

I do agree somewhat about the concern of it wearing off and affecting our children as adults, which would be more severe. However hopefully that’s something that will be addressed by the time my DC are adults. And I’m not sure I would’ve sought out the vaccination privately if we were in the UK. But I’m still glad my DC got it. They had hand foot and mouth recently and that was an awful week so I’m glad I can prevent another similar disease

Thanks, @CharcoalToothpaste. I'll check with my GP.

Definitely planning the shingles vaccine for myself in due course.

Hi OP

You might find this study useful www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2066097/
I havent looked up stats for vaccine injury but understand it to be very rare indeed so I would anticipate that death or severe complications from chicken pox is more likely than vaccine damage from the vaccine

Also something else to think about - I know 2 people who have had to cancel a holiday and one who has had ti extend its and numerous kids have cancelled birthday parties etc because of chicken pox

OP, this from the WHO should give you some decent facts on incidence of adverse events from Varivax vs incidence of adverse events from chicken pox.

The ‘it’s usually unpleasant but mild/no complications’ argument is something of a red herring. The same could (and has been) said about many illnesses on the schedule. It’s a question of your risk appetite when it comes to your children.

The other thing to factor in is that the vaccine is less effective when given as a teen or an adult than as a child.

I just had my first vaccine at 23. They won't necessarily get it in childhood and you do not want them to get it during GCSEs or uni.

One now and one at 18.

If I immunise, my dc could pass on the virus - well potentially, according to the Boots website.

There is only a very small risk of this, and only if they develop the (fairly rare) side effect of a breakthrough chicken pox type rash.

There is only one known case of post-vaccine transmission without a rash that I’m aware of, which was a recently vaccinated mother to her newborn.

It’s a question of your risk appetite when it comes to your children.

It's also a question of who you think is best placed to assess that risk. You, based on your own research, or the NHS.

Our eldest two caught CP when they were around 5 and 6, respectively.

DD just wanted to sleep, she had a temp and no appetite. Got frustrated with the itchyiness obviously and I did what I could with regular lotions and topical treatments to.make her comfy.

DS (who we believed would be far worse when he caught it from DD) pretty much carried on as usual like nothing was going on. He was itchy, obviously but was active, eating and just zipping about. It was extremely unexpected.

DD has a scar somewhere and I don't think DS has any scars.

We most likey won't vaccinate the youngest two.

We definitely are going to be vaccinating our son when he's a year old because I don't see the point of him being in pain unnecessarily.

Anyone who thinks it's conspiracy mongering to say part of the reason we don't offer routine vaccination against CP in the UK is the potential impact on MMR uptake, they haven't read enough JCVI minutes. The fear that it would drive MMR rates down further is absolutely one of the reasons. It's no great secret.

fifth I think you can ask to be tested prior to pregnancy to find out if you're immune.

Don't give them the vaccine, its friggin sick. I can't believe that one is legal tbh. Torture to put wee kiddies through that. Its just as bad as the real thing and I still have pockmarks from it too.

I work in infectious disease control. We see frequent outbreaks of scarlet fever in young children in the winter and outbreaks are on the rise in nurseries, schools and in the community in general. If the bacteria that causes scarlet fever (group A streptococcus) invades through the skin through a sore such as a chicken pox spot it can cause a life threatening infection. Otherwise healthy children and adults can and do die from sepsis related to this infection and there have been deaths in UK hospitals this winter. If your child has chickenpox and there is co-circulating scarlet fever at nursery, you must keep your child at home until the spots are completely healed (not just scabbed over but completely gone). This may mean several weeks away from nursery. Chickenpox is also generally unpleasant and can (rarely) have life threatening complications in itself. Complications related to vaccination are extremely rare and the safety profile of vaccination is better than that of many mainstream children's medicines. The UK does not currently use chickenpox vaccination in its routine schedule because there are fears that uptake will not be high enough and this may reduce herd immunity, meaning adults are at risk of catching chickenpox when the infection causes much more serious and unpleasant symptoms. I hope this is useful information to help inform your decision OP.

@trippingovertoysinthedark - I didn’t get chicken pox as a child - I was 25 when I got it, and it was utterly miserable, having it as an adult. Spots everywhere, itching like fury, sores in my throat so swallowing was painful, fever etc. I did my best not to scratch but I have scars. I had to miss work (I was an operating theatre nurse) and missed a close friend’s wedding.

All three of my dses got it when they were little - ds1 came down with it whilst I was in labour with ds3. He was 4, ds2 was 2 - he got it two weeks later, and ds3 got it when he was only 5 weeks old.

In fairness, none of them were particularly ill with it, and they do t have a lot of scarring, or any long term effects - but if there had been a vaccine and we could have spared one, two or all of them this illness, we would have.

Don't give them the vaccine, its friggin sick. I can't believe that one is legal tbh. Torture to put wee kiddies through that. Its just as bad as the real thing and I still have pockmarks from it too.

That makes no sense. I just had the vaccine a couple of weeks ago, as did my seven year old, and while neither of us has had the slightest ill effect to date, I'm not claiming this represents any kind of general insight into the effects of the vaccine.

It's also a question of who you think is best placed to assess that risk. You, based on your own research, or the NHS.

Or the state health systems in many other countries, who have reached a different conclusion. The NHS is an outlier. So it is instructive to understand the reasons for the decision.

Me deciding my child should have Varivax will not lead another parent to decide their child should not have the MMR.

Anyone who thinks it's conspiracy mongering to say part of the reason we don't offer routine vaccination against CP in the UK is the potential impact on MMR uptake, they haven't read enough JCVI minutes. The fear that it would drive MMR rates down further is absolutely one of the reasons. It's no great secret.

Yes - these are publicly available. Now that the speculated shingles risk has been shown to be lower than many feared (an uptick, but in younger adults not the elderly), the risk of further pushing down MMR rates because the anti-vax movement has had such successes and would no doubt use it as a tool seems the main reason, apart from upfront cost.

Vaccinated both mine and have now witnessed a few friends go through some awful times with their kids getting it. I weighed up the risks. Nothing is without risk obviously but do what's right for you.

Get them vaccinated, I caught chicken pox off my younger brother when I was 12, I was covered from head to toe & other places, I passed them on to my 39 year old mum who caught them as badly as me. I'm in bed at the moment because I've got shingles & I'm in agony. Yes it can be a mild disease, but for many children & adults it can be awful & leave terrible scars.

Thanks JassyRadlett that is reassuring. I think during the summer holidays sounds like a good time to do it then.