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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be in two minds about the chicken pox vaccine

341 replies

trippingovertoysinthedark · 13/07/2019 06:22

I’m really on the fence with this one.

On the one hand, I have two preschool children in full time childcare and a SE partner. Financially, we could be in trouble if we had to take time off work to look after them if/when they get chicken pox. Also, I don’t want them to be unwell.

However, on the other hand, them being unwell now might set them up for lifetime immunity and that would probably be ultimately better than the vaccine when it wanes - I’m also not a fan of vaccinating children when it isn’t needed, as vaccine damage can happen and yes tiny chance blah blah but why take that chance if you don’t have to? Although I haven’t read of any adverse reactions to the pox vaccine but then would I be likely to?

So I’m dithering here Grin

OP posts:
cloudyinjune · 13/07/2019 07:09

It is not about having scars OP
It is about the serios consequences for their bodies.

There is no evidence of the vaccines wearing off and if they do discover that then you get a booster like with many others like tetanus or the rest.

You can get CP and then get it again so having the illness doesn't provide life immunity either.

You can't make an informed decision by looking at how many scarred children ypu see on the street. What about the ones you don't see because they died? Or the life long disabilities and issues you won't see are connected to it?

cloudyinjune · 13/07/2019 07:10

CP often looks nasty due to the rash but for the most part there aren’t pockmarked children walking around.

Well then Hmm

"Looks nasty" I rest my case with you OP

SlocombePooter · 13/07/2019 07:11

My DH had chicken pox as a child and he was left partially deaf.

If in 20 years it becomes obvious that the vaccine wanes, then surely a booster will be available? By then your child will be able to look after their own health.

Yugi · 13/07/2019 07:12

I had chickenpox twice before I was ten and then shingles when I was 11. No lifelong immunity there. The shingles was in my eyes and I have had to wear glasses since and have been told that the damage to my sight could have been much worse. I wish I could have been vaccinated

cloudyinjune · 13/07/2019 07:12

My DH had chicken pox as a child and he was left partially deaf.

So sorry to hear that Sad

This would be lost on the OP as if they met on the street she wouldn't see the spots 💆🏻‍♀️

Horses4 · 13/07/2019 07:13

My daughter is currently dealing with the fall-out of her second bout of CP. Granted she is immunosuppressed but currently she can’t walk more than three steps without falling and has 3 hours plus of muscle spasms every evening. She is now immune which is a relief, but presently reliant on a wheelchair to get anywhere, and we don’t know how long this will last.

Yes, complications are rare, but your child could be one of the rare ones.

nolongersurprised · 13/07/2019 07:15

We moved from a country with no vaccine to one with (Australia) and I had the same concerns re delaying the age of infectivity. At that stage it was one vaccine at 18 months. I talked to a friend of mine who was a public health doctor who said 2 vaccines were better than one and he’d suggest a booster in teenage years.

All 4 DC have had it done without mishap - I think no 2 had about 2 spots at her hairline afterwards. Chicken pox just doesn’t seem to happen here. I’d do it - it can be a nasty virus if it irritates the eye, optic nerve or cerebellum

trippingovertoysinthedark · 13/07/2019 07:15

You’re taking over this thread cloudy and tbh it isn’t helpful. Thanks for your input.

OP posts:
JeremyCorbynsCoat · 13/07/2019 07:17

Your main concern shouldn't be time off work, it should be your children becoming seriously ill or worse.

Chicken pox isn't like an inconvenient bug which inevitably pass. It is fucking horrendous.

SinkGirl · 13/07/2019 07:17

It’s really not just about it looking nasty. If you get a nasty case then it’s extremely painful and distressing - how would you feel about having itchy, painful, pus filled blisters in your eyes, ears, mouth, on your genitals, in your anus, especially when having to wear a nappy so you’re frequently weeing and pooing over open sores. It’s absolutely horrendous.

Then there’s the fact that you can’t give ibuprofen so only have paracetamol to main pain and fever in an illness that notoriously causes very high fevers. The one especially awful night, he’d already had the day’s allowance of calpol and we could give him nothing while he screamed all night. They couldn’t eat because their mouths and tongues were covered in blisters. Then there were the infections - DT2 saw a doctor the morning after the hysterical screaming and she said it didn’t look particularly infected and just to use antibiotic cream. By 6:30pm that night he had a serious infection, we fortunately got him seen in time to avoid hospitalisation - if it hadn’t flared up until he’d gone to bed and it hadn’t been seen until morning, he could have had sepsis quite easily based on how quickly it was spreading and worsening.

You could get lucky and your kids could get a mild case. They could get a very serious case. I read a blog by a doctor who’d seen multiple children die from chicken pox - they can get blisters on their brain and encephalitis, or a secondary skin infection that can be fatal.

It’s not worth the risk IMO. If you’re concerned about immunity wearing off, this can be tested / boosters can be given.

You can’t get shingles unless you’ve had chicken pox since it’s the reactivation of the dormant virus. You can also get the shingles vaccine if you’re concerned about it.

likeafishneedsabike · 13/07/2019 07:17

Get the vaccine as soon as possible. We are just finishing chicken pox with two children. DS2 has been the most unwell he has ever been by a very long way. Fairly substantial loss of earnings. What’s the point when it’s avoidable?

BertieBotts · 13/07/2019 07:20

Vaccines are one of the most scrutinised and studied areas of medicine - the idea that "vaccine damage" might be much higher than "they" think is unfortunately a persistent antivax myth. It is not especially helped by some doctors being immediately dismissive or even impatient about people coming with genuine fears that something might be linked, but all suspected vaccine-linked issues are able to be reported independently of your individual doctor's say-so. The chicken pox vaccine has been standard in most countries for 10-15 years now, and up to 30 in some others, with no widespread problems occurring. In fact the main reason why it's difficult to pin down exact numbers for people harmed by vaccination is because it so rarely happens. It's a little bit like cot death in that respect (now so low it's almost impossible to advance the research and get any more information about why it happens).

One of the most common fears linked to vaccination is this nonspecific brain injury one - part of that we know the cause, it is acute allergic encephalitis, and doctors/nurses administering vaccinations have to be trained in how to react to this and is why it is important to keep an eye on your child for the 24/48 hours following a vaccination. Unfortunately it's not possible to reverse every case but in most cases it is. Either way this is very rare. The other regression-of-skills version is related to the usual profile of several disorders including autism spectrum disorders and some chromosomal disorders (e.g. tiny deletions) which technology has only recently been improved/clear enough to identify. These patterns occur in children with these types of disorders whether they were vaccinated or not, and not in any concordant kind of pattern relating to the timing of a vaccination. It must be extremely distressing to witness as a parent, and I can totally understand why vaccination would be under scrutiny as a potential cause - you'd want to investigate any possible cause in the manner of Dr. House sending his students to rifle through a patient's home and last known movements - but the link with vaccination has been suggested a lot and never found to have any compelling reason to link with cases like these. You might as well blame brand of washing powder. It's not logical to assume that vaccination is the one area where doctors/scientists are wrong, unless you have something specifically against vaccination, and I think two things feed in here - a totally natural revulsion/horror of the idea of pain caused by needles and the idea of putting a foreign substance directly into a child, not moderated through something like the digestive system (is it just me or do oral vaccines always somehow "feel" safer?) and the question of profit - alternative health traders have much to gain (selfishly) from the idea of discrediting "mainstream" medicine. Probably not small scale homeopaths, naturopaths, crystal healers etc - most of who seem to genuinely believe in what they sell, but follow up to the highest point of those profit triangles and sadly you find money and greed driving at least some of the antivax movement.

Then the second most common fear I have come across is the idea that vaccines are not some kind of singular trigger/cause of harm but that they are simply a small part of the pollution we as humans encounter every day, and can avoid some of by eating organic, avoiding plastics, reducing carbon use and so forth. The argument here is that if you are doing everything you can to avoid environmental pollutants in your life, you should also avoid them in medicines and vaccines, getting only those which are strictly necessary, or some argue none at all (possibly because they believe them to be inefficient). But again, this is a poorly thought out argument. The fact is we come into contact with a great many environmental pollutants every day. It's true that our modern lifestyles are harming us. But if you want to cut down on things which will harm you, it makes sense to approach it as a risk/benefit decision. In fact the amounts of these kinds of things included in vaccines are extremely small, much smaller than some tolerance levels allowed in food or things like car exhaust fumes, which we encounter every day. A vaccination on the other hand is something you will have once or a handful of times in your life, and has a huge benefit in terms of protecting you from terrible side effects of some diseases. If you want to cut down on environmental pollutants, this is a terrible way to do so. It would be similar to saying that a fridge is very harmful to the ozone layer (true) so you're going to store your meat and cheese at room temperature, not making any effort to keep it cool enough to reduce bacterial growth. In avoiding one risk you have increased another which is far more likely to have a direct effect on your own health and that of any visitors you feed.

The one certain downside of vaccination is the delivery method - you get a sore leg or arm. It's not especially pleasant but probably in the scheme of things no worse than being ill for a week.

trippingovertoysinthedark · 13/07/2019 07:24

Well, a sore arm or leg is neither here nor there really but the possibility of regressing to the point of babyhood for a lifetime for a disease that is usually very mild is Shock

OTOH I don’t want them to get ill

OP posts:
speadyourwingsandflyaway · 13/07/2019 07:29

We got DD vaccinated this week. No regrets, and no side effects either. I'm not too bothered if immunity wanes in 20 years because she can get a booster. You wouldn't not have a tetanus vax just because it wears off after a while. So for me it was a no brainer.

TurningAroundTheBush · 13/07/2019 07:29

CP can kill or leave children with brain damage.

CleverLoginName · 13/07/2019 07:32

I've got CP scars from when I caught it aged 21 years old.

DS13 had the vaccination last year after he didn't contract the disease despite being open to it at nursery and school. Best decision we made and should have done it earlier. I've a diary note on electronic calendar to remind him when he's 22 to have the booster!

countrygirl99 · 13/07/2019 07:39

If my kids had had the vaccine my eldest wouldn't have had shingles aged 12.
My friends husband caught CP from their daughter. Very mild CP as he had it as a child (still believe in that natural life long immunity), still enough to put him in intensive care with his wife told he had a 50:50 chance of surviving the night and if he did hopefully they would be able to save his leg. His one spot had got infected and he developed sepsis.
In just the last 12 months I've known 2 people get CP for the second time as an adult.

HorridHenrysNits · 13/07/2019 07:41

We don't know yet whether the vaccine gives better, worse or the same length of immunity as the disease itself. Do not make the mistake of thinking the illness means automatic lifelong immunity either. It can and does sometimes wear off.

SinkGirl · 13/07/2019 07:43

Also, both of my boys have autism. Both regressed significantly around 18 months but one was gradual whereas the other was pretty much overnight - he lost a giant proportion of the things he’d learnt just like that.

Autism is pretty much one of the only things that causes this. If this happened shortly after receiving a vaccine I understand why you’d want to attribute it to the vaccine but that doesn’t mean they’re linked. If a major regression is going to happen, it will generally happen around 12-18 months so may well happen around the time MMR is given. But there are plenty of kids who never got the MMR and regressed in the same time period.

And even if vaccines did cause autism (which they absolutely don’t), the idea that my kids would be better off potentially dying from a preventable illness is absolutely appalling.

None of my mum friends had paid for the chicken pox vaccine until they saw the state of my two, now quite a few have. I am really shocked that it’s so trivialised in our country after going through it twice.

trippingovertoysinthedark · 13/07/2019 07:47

Well - I know of at least two posters from Mumsnet and their sons did suffer vaccine damage but I won’t get into that other than to say I don’t believe they are lying. I fully accept as risks go it is tiny but still there.

OP posts:
Weenurse · 13/07/2019 07:48

No vaccine when mine were young. DD2 so sick they thought she had encephalitis.
Also got it one after the other so I had to employ a nanny for a short time as the could not go to child care.
Would not want to go through that again.
Also immunosuppressed children rely on herd immunity. I could not live with myself knowing a child had died due to my negligence.

SinkGirl · 13/07/2019 07:49

The statistics of how often it’s mild vs how often is very serious don’t really matter if it’s your child who ends up with encephalitis, sepsis etc. Worth having a look at this study on the 100+ UK kids admitted with severe complications in the course of a year, including 6 deaths:
adc.bmj.com/content/archdischild/92/12/1062.full.pdf

nolongersurprised · 13/07/2019 07:50

I think the tricky thing as well is that at the time that the vaccine is given you’ve got a well child and you’re potentially introducing a bit of misery - sore limb, fever, grumpiness - so on a day-to-day basis, if it’s not on the schedule, it’s never the perfect day to do it.

I remember when DD2 had her first rotavirus vaccine, she definitely was a bit “off” and she had loose poos. On the other hand, when she was 2 we were working in a part of Australia with a high Indigenous population who were more susceptible to the virus (for multiple reasons) and there was a massive outbreak with some extremely sick children. DD1 hadn’t had the vaccine as it wasn’t on the schedule at the time and was sick for 3 weeks, she lost so much weight and was the sickest she’d ever been. Her directors was so awful we had to put her back in nappies. DD2, on the other hand, had 2 days of mild diarrhoea and was completely well in herself.

Like CP most children will recover completely from rotavirus but the awfulness of the illness plus the potential for serious complications is why vaccinating is a good idea and a privilege, really.

S1naidSucks · 13/07/2019 07:52

My brother is profoundly deaf as a result of chicken pox.

My youngest was in agony with shingles, when she was a teenager.

I don’t think you’re fence sitting OP, it sounds more like you’re looking for excuses not to give it.

nolongersurprised · 13/07/2019 07:52

*diarrhoea, not directors!