AIBU for thinking the DfE have got this one wrong?

[herculepoirot2]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7242631/Maths-spelling-tests-trainee-teachers-scrapped-attempt-boost-staff-numbers.html

Trainee teachers hated these tests, because they meant they could invest in a PGCE or on-the-job teacher training route, but be asked to leave because of limitations in their ability to spell or do basic calculations.

Then the Government cancelled the cap on the number of times you could take the test before being disqualified from teaching, because it was affecting recruitment numbers. Now the Government are abolishing the test altogether, because of the several thousands of potential teachers who have failed to qualify every year as a result of failing them.

Aren’t they mopping the decks on the Titanic? If teaching has become so undesirable as a profession that they can only plug the gap by recruiting people who struggle to spell twenty middle-order words, or to calculate a simple percentage value given pen and paper, shouldn’t they be dealing with the very obvious workload and behaviour issues affecting the numbers of people applying to teacher training, rather than lowering the standard of education required to do it?

I have a small child. Although I sympathise with those colleagues who have signed up to teacher training and had to leave because they couldn’t pass these tests, some of whom have been absolutely lovely, I do not want my child taught by someone whose ability to spell and do simple maths has never been tested in any robust way.

AIBU?

'So no, we’re not talking rocket scientists, but being able to choose the correct ten spellings from a multiple choice list before you get to teach children spelling isn’t that.'

I hate to split hairs, but candidates listen to the words via an audio recording and then spell them. The non-audio, multiple choice option is a concession if an individual has certain processing or hearing difficulties.

So, the spelling test focuses on candidates spelling ten words that they hear via an audio link.

I know two rocket scientists. They aren't all that bright.

@fedup21 we are paid directly from the department of education. Teacher pay is not a part of the “school budget” per se.

Aha, that is interesting. So heads do still value experience there! All jobs here are advertised as...

‘NQTs welcome’

Which loosely translates as ‘only NQTs need apply as we simply can’t afford anyone else!’.

@fedup21 yes...in fact even when getting a supply teacher they will ring their retired friends who are paid at an extortionate hourly rate!! 😂

So, the spelling test focuses on candidates spelling ten words that they hear via an audio link.

So it does. I’d forgotten! But even so.

But also Irish schools don’t have books, workbook etc to buy as that is the parents job. We are given book lists at the end of each year for the next year. Ppl on low incomes can avail of a back to school grant through social services. This is the school list for my dd next year.

Interesting-I’d be happy to do that. Nobody moans about it?

I am genuinely very worried about what’s happening to teaching in England. I cannot find a full time job locally on UPS. I’m stuck on part time as I cost the same as a full time NQT.

fedup I’m really worried too, but then that other thread is running full of comments about how great state schools are.

If parents cannot see the issues (and they should be appalled), then why would the government take anything more than superficial action?

@fedup21 well I can’t say NOBODY Moans I’m sure ppl do but it’s the way it is and always has been. It’s a part of life here so ppl budget for it I suppose. As I said though, there are allowances for those on social welfare/low incomes. I will probably spend approx €200 sending my dd back to school between the list and uniform

@fedup21 I’m sorry you can’t get a full time position 😢it shouldn’t be that way at all!!

If prospective teachers are unable to pads the skills tests, despite having at least passed GCSEs in both English and maths, I would be concerned at the expectations at GCSE level, let alone at A level and beyond.
Maybe we should be looking at why teaching isn't attractive to the higher level graduates rather than making entry requirements lower. Perhaps if we funded it properly to begin with, including teachers' salaries, we would attract better qualified people in the first place. If the government allowed teachers to teach, rather than introducing endless initiatives and tweaks and didn't use teachers as a punchbag or allow parents to do so, maybe teachers would feel valued and more would stay. Instead, teachers are lambasted for their 'holidays', are seen as solely responsible when their pupils don't achieve as well as expected yet not credited when students do achieve as, or better than expected. I can't think of any other profession where the staff are so unappreciated by their 'customers' as well as their employers.
We should make the profession more attractive to good candidates -

• rebate tuition fees for teachers who are still teaching after five years, maybe sliding scale so that after ten years teaching tuition fees are fully rebated
• teacher's salaries need to be raised. Whilst the salary sounds reasonable when 'holidays' are taken into consideration, it is true that most teachers I know work many more hours in the evenings and during holidays than they are paid for. If those hours, or even half of them were paid, salaries would be much higher. The government needs to address this issue.
• Fund education properly. We don't (as far as I know) expect doctors and nurses to pay for patients' drugs, catheters or other basic equipment requirements to enable them to do their job so why should teachers have to pay out for similarly basic items - I know several teachers who have had to buy glue sticks, pencils etc for their students this year.

The whole issue is far bigger than these tests.

@Youngandfree I know-it’s crap. I’m not quite sure what to do now.

I think different people have different thresholds of what 'brainy' and 'academic' are.

I would say I would fall on the higher end of the academic/brainy continuum, but nowhere close to the people I consider to be exceptionally intelligent and wow smart. I'd probably say most of my colleagues are above average in terms of intelligence.

Excellent teachers with developed, well rounded subject knowledge are generally smart and rightly so. It deserves to be valued.

I despair when I hear weaker colleagues or trainees act like it's unreasonable to expect them to read up on education, read around the topics they will be teaching, proof read their resources and so on. The drama some of them create over the finest bit of independent academic thinking (and even the basics) depresses me.

It sounds like they have really got things right in Ireland.

Are there any Welsh or Scottish teachers on here-how are things in teaching for you at the moment?

Funding
Training (skills tests?)
Recruitment and retention
School budgets meaning NQTs are the only desirable staff?
Work/life balance-marking, planning etc

Am really interested. Is it worth moving?!

Hasn’t Wales just made a terrible decision with their curriculum? Getting rid of subjects and replacing them with Areas of Learning.

Can’t have a shortage of maths teachers if you don’t teach maths.

@fedup21 don’t get me wrong we have our gripes and there has been budget cuts for schools. But on the scale of things it’s not too bad at all, no system is perfect I suppose.

I just had a look at that test linked up thread.

There are grammatical errors in some of the questions, for crying out loud. You can't just plonk a colon in the middle of a sentence because the following words are in bullet points, nor do bullet points somehow excuse an incomplete sentence.

If you are going to have a list, have a list. If you are going to have a sentence, have a sentence.

Youngndfree leaving certificat subjects are no way equivalent to an A Level. And they are compulsory too.

I've taught in both England and Ireland. Every Irish teacher I know has a 2:1 hons degree and am MA. The English/Maths A level is misrepresented here by pps. You need a pass at leaving cert but it's more like the IB and not as difficult as A Levels.

But as the pay, conditions and holidays are better in Ireland it is a sought after job so recruitment for the PGCE equivalent can be pickier and demand a 2:1.

I interviewed for English teachers in London . Some had shocking school/uni results.

@Bumper1969 well they are 2/3 of an a level so imo more equivalent than not?!! They are certainly not equivalent to the GCSE as they are on a par to the junior cert. I never said they weren’t compulsory, I just said that you needed them to go to university (unless you were a mature student etc etc)

GCE A level is normally taken in schools and colleges in England and Wales and Northern Ireland two years after GCSE examinations. In terms of A levels, the nearest Irish equivalent award is the Leaving Certificate.

This was taken from Qualifax. It is considered tithe nearest equivalent.

Yes I know in terms of age stage etc. But A Levels are .much harder . I have a pass leaving cert maths but I know it's not as hard as an Level. I taught A Level English and a pass English LC is nowhere near as difficult. I still think the Irish system is better both as a student and teacher.

I have taken them as a primary teacher. I think there were helpful to ensure a basic standard, although I really sympathised with Art/DT etc teachers, who were kind and talented but had a specific issue with maths that probably wouldn't have impacted their teaching.

I went to school years ago.
The teachers were crap then.
School is for attendance purposes only.
Parents will teach you much better than teachers.
My brother went to Oxford university, his loser teachers wanted to take the credit for it.
When it was down to my parents and a Vicar.

Lots of sweeping generalisation there!