AIBU for thinking the DfE have got this one wrong?

[herculepoirot2]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7242631/Maths-spelling-tests-trainee-teachers-scrapped-attempt-boost-staff-numbers.html

Trainee teachers hated these tests, because they meant they could invest in a PGCE or on-the-job teacher training route, but be asked to leave because of limitations in their ability to spell or do basic calculations.

Then the Government cancelled the cap on the number of times you could take the test before being disqualified from teaching, because it was affecting recruitment numbers. Now the Government are abolishing the test altogether, because of the several thousands of potential teachers who have failed to qualify every year as a result of failing them.

Aren’t they mopping the decks on the Titanic? If teaching has become so undesirable as a profession that they can only plug the gap by recruiting people who struggle to spell twenty middle-order words, or to calculate a simple percentage value given pen and paper, shouldn’t they be dealing with the very obvious workload and behaviour issues affecting the numbers of people applying to teacher training, rather than lowering the standard of education required to do it?

I have a small child. Although I sympathise with those colleagues who have signed up to teacher training and had to leave because they couldn’t pass these tests, some of whom have been absolutely lovely, I do not want my child taught by someone whose ability to spell and do simple maths has never been tested in any robust way.

AIBU?

If the tests are not really 'raising standards' in teaching, then surely it is time they went.

But they did weed out people whose literacy and numeracy was even worse than that of the people being mentioned here. So the standard will drop.

The standard of trainees has certainly seemed to decline over past decade as it is, although I must say the Irish ones are generally really good. Interesting in relation to the comments upthread about the Irish systems.

If the tests are not really 'raising standards' in teaching, then surely it is time they went. That's the trouble with ALL tests. They don't teach, they only measure. It's the biggest problem with SATs etc.

After all, you can weigh a pig every day, it won't be any more intelligent at the end of the year. It will just weigh more and be more difficult to get on the scales!

If you are teaching art or PE maybe the tests could be different. Hardly. Many PE teachers have maths as their second lesson, mainly because of the fairly heavy science in every sport degree. That's why when I wanted a Department Head job I could take on the English / Maths in FE.

And it's not maths that you teach, it's maths you use as a teacher. Plus box and whisker plots...

After all, you can weigh a pig every day, it won't be any more intelligent at the end of the year. It will just weigh more and be more difficult to get on the scales!

Teachers aren’t meant to get more intelligent. They are meant to have the capacity to do the job from the outset. Testing they have the acumen and knowledge for it isn’t some sort of unnecessary extra step in the hiring process - it’s essential.

??? Crikey! I was making a comment about testing in general.

Plus box and whisker plots...

In my dream world this would be how we report assessment data to parents!

And mine. But I have never seen school data presented using them, apart from once when I did it, and had to explain it in SLT

My DS's school gives exam percentage and paper median, but that's all. I bonded with her Maths teacher over my request for more info...

When I say that's all, I do appreciate that it's considerably better than giving me a made up GCSE grade in KS3 or whatever arbitrary "level" they decide to put on it.

Having looked at the tests, my 10yo could get a perfect score. Something is very wrong if the people going into teaching can’t pass that test.

My son had his work corrected by a teacher. He had written "maid" and the feedback said it should be "made". Thing is he was writing about life in the past and meant maid as in a servant.

Having looked at the tests, my 10yo could get a perfect score. Something is very wrong if the people going into teaching can’t pass that test.

Something is indeed very wrong.

According to the teacher of one of my children "fish" as a plural doesn't exist. 🥺

If we lower state education any further we'll be sending our children to school wearing pit helmets and carrying oxygen tanks!

OP, YANBU.

Can't help commenting but people who sneer pedantically really ought to get things right : it's pith helmet .

Can't help commenting but people who sneer pedantically really ought to get things right : it's pith helmet

I rather thought the PP was making a mining reference!

To be honest, the tests were easy to pass and any teacher should be able to pass them.

That said, I get so many pupils come into my class in high school who have been taught math badly, and incorrectly, by their primary school teachers, so I’m too sure it’s always having the desired effect anyway.

I thought she was too Jacques but lots of people think what miners wear is a pit helmet because they have (mis)heard pith helmet.

but lots of people think what miners wear is a pit helmet because they have (mis)heard pith helmet

Or because colloquially “pit helmet” is a shortening for pit-mining helmet?

Possibly. They're called miners' helmets where I come from.

Now we're being pedants...

I'm about to commence teacher training and have recently passed these. I would say the actual tests were much harder than the mock versions online, the time also makes a big difference as does the clunky system. I got very good GCSEs and found these to be a little harder than those. Whilst I really didn't enjoy doing them my GCSEs were a while ago so it was a good chance to refresh some of the maths bits. However, I understand the PGCE course will cover this anyway so it's perhaps unnecessary for that reason. I am enjoying reading how people want teachers to be brainy, personally I think other traits are equally, if not more, important.

I am enjoying reading how people want teachers to be brainy, personally I think other traits are equally, if not more, important.

I hate this. It’s not a zero sum game. You don’t lose an IQ point for every ounce of empathy, or humour, or patience. Teaching is a game where you are going to genuinely need just about all the positive qualities you can think of.

@herculepoirot2 Its just my opinion, you are most welcome to disagree. I just feel that someone extremely good at maths with no empathy or patience would find it hard to develop into a good teacher as these skills are not easily taught or learnt. A person with empathy and patience (for example) who needs to brush up on maths skills (again for example) can probably do so relatively easily.