Be honest -you wouldn't employ a person with certain mental health issues, would you?

[sportmax]

That's ludicrous- if they're competent and fit for the job - of course I would. That's what I imagine most people would say.
But I don't think people are really being honest with themselves.

What if the person had a mental health issue like social anxiety, would you still want to hire them? Probably not.

Yes, I accept what you are saying about specific roles. I think that also depends on the nature of the condition, if it is being managed with medication and or therapy, how well that person is able to take care of themselves. As I said earlier, some very serious mental health issues affect suffers more often than not and for those people, working might just not be viable at all, in the same way that some physical illness have such a big impact that people can't work. These people are amongst societies most vulnerable and should be taken care of.

Surely other people/colleagues would find mental illness less distressing if they understood it?

Nobody chooses to have a mental illness anymore than they choose a physical disability, their race, sexuality or any of the other protected characteristics.

@that25cUKHeatwaveof2019

I, for one, am very shocked that people still discriminate like this. I believed that progress had been made in this area. Clearly, there is still a huge amount of stigma attached. As a sufferer that saddens me.

Confidence, as an example, helps in more ways that one. I have a book keeper just leaving us. She's incredibly confident, and if she makes a mistake she comes straight to me, no side to her, acknowledging her mistake and asking for my help.

Since everybody makes mistakes, that's incredibly valuable to have - I know I would have been pissing myself at her age to bring up my own faults to my managers. Her predecessor was fanatical about having her work checked, when she'd done it just fine.

Equally I have had problems with brash, over extrovert people not realising or respecting others' boundaries. And one guy with bad anxiety who was very good at his job, but terrified of the HR woman. She had no MH issues, just a bitch .

I'm sorry that you're not having any luck getting a job OP, but the brutal truth is that yes, when I am hiring and I have a choice between two candidates of equal virtue, but one was confident and one was nervous, yes, I'd hire the confident one.

Gamechange
it's not discrimination, it's finding the right people for the right job. Some people simply can't do certain roles, but for whatever reason. Ultimately, the business is trying to earn money, and you can't employ someone who will have a negative impact on the rest of the team.

There are a lot of jobs someone in a wheelchair won't be able to do - but there are many others where they perfectly can and the wheelchair has no impact at all on their work. It's not discrimination not to consider a wheelchair user for the roles they physically cannot do. It would be discrimination to refuse to accommodate them when they only issue would be going through the front door or giving them an adapted desk.

you will deal with this person for at least 40 hours a week
When DH recruits he always bears in mind that he’s choosing a colleague. Someone he’ll spend coffee and lunch breaks with, possibly go on business trips with and eat dinner with, socialise with at the Christmas party etc. He chooses a compatible person who can do the job adequately. Not necessarily the best candidate but someone he can be friends with. Then he wonders why I can’t get a job? Until I point out that employers are doing the same as he is and I’m not likeable.

I’m a social worker with social anxiety. It doesn’t define me, and actually being in a job where I have to deal with stressful, social situations, has massively helped me.

It's a balance. I have been in a team of brash, boyish, loud and overly confident men where I stuck like a sore thumb, being a quiet and smiley female. I still got promoted over them, but being calm and quiet doesn't mean I am not confident. I don't need to scream and swear, I am more into cold sarcasm.

If it's only the interviews that let you down, try to go the temping way - many perm jobs start with a maternity cover, a contractor being kept on. It's easier to employ someone you know.

Honestly, for many jobs, I would say no unless the job really didnt have much to do with social activities.
I've lived with Social anxiety and I've got OCD. I just had to figure out what I could do until I could get ontop of it.
I took on dog care jobs and cleaning work. Now I have to deal with people, but time is evenly spread out between working on my own, meetings with people- and I always have a rough outline on what I need to discuss which takes away some of the anxiety. There are issues at hand, and paperwork to flick through, and other peoples arses to kick.

Interviews have always been quite a negative experience for me, because like yourself I dont get good feedback...however I do rely somewhat on past colleagues having felt I was good enough to pass on their experience with me if they hear of anything, its netted me my most recent freelance role, and I know that there is more work that will come out of it.

Wishing you lots of luck. It wont always be this way.

I have pretty severe social anxiety. I know I have to exert myself during interviews, but even with that effort, I still come across as a bit odd. I’ve never had trouble getting a job. This is going to sound like boasting, but it’s just honesty. It helps that I am extremely intelligent and that comes out in interviews even if my personality is not mainstream. I also have a good education and have developed excellent skills that make me highly employable.

It really is just a matter of finding the right fit. I don’t know what kind of field OP is trying to enter, but it’s possible that might need a bit of tweaking. I don’t apply for jobs where I need to chat someone up over a business lunch. I apply for jobs where sitting at my computer and diligently working is the goal.

I totally get that, if someone can't do the job, surely they wouldn't apply? In this case though, the person is qualified/experienced enough to be invited by them to an interview. We will never know if they are discriminating or not.

The most interesting part for me is that statistically 1 in 4 has a mental health problem. Your CEO, your doctor, your pub landlord, your dentist, hairdresser, firemen, paramedics, police.... anyone of them. Guess they shouldn't have jobs though.

@JacquesHammer

That sounds an ideal job for somebody like me .

I apparently have depression with anxiety but I don't THINK I have the acutal anxiety part of it .

I do get confused though with anxiety and stress and assume its stress that gives me a dodgy tummy at times, not anxiety Might be wrong though .

if someone can't do the job, surely they wouldn't apply?
you'd be surprised...

Your CEO, your doctor, your pub landlord, your dentist, hairdresser, firemen, paramedics, police.... anyone of them. Guess they shouldn't have jobs though.
no one has said anyone suffering with some mental health problem should be kicked out, but if the medical reason prevents them from doing what is expected of them, then of course they shouldn't be employed in that role.

If someone is a bag of nerves at interview, and you know it will be a stressful job, why would you employ them?

I would expect someone to be nervous in an interview and do everything I could to make them feel comfortable.

I don't think we are going to agree but i thank you and respect you for the debate. Very interesting.

My work is very linked to this subject so its definitely provided some insight.

I would expect someone to be nervous in an interview

it really depends on the job and on the level.

I have interviewed newly graduated individuals who came across superbly. For some roles, nerves are fine, for others, you'd expect someone to be senior and confident enough to look the part.

For some roles, the actual work or portfolio is all you need to judge. For other, it's entirely down to the individual.

I don't know, I wouldn't judge a seamstress or a car salesman with the same criteria at all.

In all honesty I wouldn't employ someone with certain MH conditions:
Schitzophrenia
Psychosis
Multiple Personality Disorders

Definitely wouldn't employ a psychopath.

Having had experience of someone with psychosis, it can be very scary when someone has episodes of paranoid delusions and hearing voices (even though these people are more likely to be victims rather than perpetrators of crime).

I know it sounds unfair but I'm just trying to be honest.

I had one episode of psychosis some years ago . It was the most shameful part of my life . Never happened since thank God but I was really not in control . .So much so my own DM said "That's not my daughter , what is it?" :(

So I do not blame your preference to rather not employ somebody who has that often (poor souls is how I see it though) @idontwanttotalk

Lots of jobs don't require being sociable. I don't know what OP is talking about. I work with proud introverts. Many are happy to bury heads in SQL scripts & only communicate tersely by email all day.

Yanbu

People won't admit it but it's true.

I have severe mh issues inc OCD, anxiety, depression and resultant agoraphobia at times (currently 18 months housebound)

Couple of years ago I (falsely as it turned out, though that wasn't obvious at the time and I wonder if this contributed) thought I was well enough to return to work.

I have 2 degrees, work related qualifications, experience, good refs.

I applied for over 200 jobs at this time I got a total of THREE replies and one of those was automated (yep I was rejected by a bot!)

I was working with an expert in recruitment who was linked to me via a mh charity and has a lot of experience in getting people with mh issues back in the workplace.

He admitted it was getting increasingly harder to do. Partly yes because there are generally higher unemployment levels/fewer jobs, but also he believes because of the way benefits claimants and particularly the mentally ill are being portrayed in the msm - as "scroungers" who are exaggerating their conditions and are actually not ill but workshy.

I applied for all sorts from nmw retail roles to middle management admin roles and everything in between. Basically anything that I was qualified/experienced to do or which were offering any training necessary.

THREE out of over 200!

All rejections.

With some I tried to get "feedback" on why my application was unsuccessful but most wouldn't enter into any discussion. The few that did gave vague responses about other applicants being "a better fit" (even though they'd never met me), better qualified/more experience (which could be true, but I'm not convinced always was with certain more specialised roles which I had the relevant qualifications/experience for)

The frustrating irony is that I interview well, I've never reached interview stage and not been offered the job and as an army brat and then army wife I've had a lot of interviews and jobs! I've even had employers who've offered me the job but I've not been keen offer more pay etc to try and change my mind, but experience taught me quite early on "if it seems too good to be true it probably is" as I took a couple of jobs I had misgivings about and it was an absolute disaster every time, so I resolved to trust my instincts in future. Interviews aren't just the employer interviewing you, it's the potential employee deciding whether the job/employer is a good fit for them. Quite honestly if my line manager had been involved in the interview process at my last job no way I'd have taken it, it was a horrific situation that I learned too late there was a very high turnover in my role due to her and that the company knew what she was like. What it does mean is that if I am ever in a situation like that again I will handle it very differently.

The 2nd boss I had after DX was not at all understanding. Indeed what actually happened in that role was my mh DX was used against me (quite literally - gaslighting, deliberately triggering me, disclosing to other employees unnecessarily etc) leading to me hitting another period of severe illness from which I am still really struggling to recover.

I was very lucky that the first employer I had after my first breakdown was very understanding. Although she didn't know when I was offered the job I disclosed to get shortly after as I needed to attend some appointments and she was incredibly supportive, unfortunately that job was in a place that was a franchise chain and the chain went bust. I was never off sick in that job even though against advice I returned to full time work less than 6 months after a full on crisis. I'm sure this was because the boss and my colleagues were professional, kind and thoughtful people who even though they'd no prior experience with anyone with a mental illness, let alone as severe as I can be, were supportive but basically didn't treat me like I had 2 Fucking heads which I think some respondents on this thread would do.

Aside from in that last job I've worked since I was 14, full time from age 16 excepting when I was at uni or on mat leave and was very rarely off sick, certainly no more than anybody else and not the type to take to take a sick day for "sniffles", a "grafter" at work happy and willing to go above and beyond when required, this is why I have good refs.

For an office role probably yes for a customer service role no why? Not all mh conditions affect a persons ability to deal with the public.

"I wouldn’t know from the application whether a potential member of staff had mental health problems;" how is your application form laid out? How are most cv's expected to be laid out? A gap in someone's employment history usually is an indicator to prospective employers that the applicant has been unable to work at that time for some reason, sometimes it can be "explained away" by childcare, elderly care responsibilities, lets be honest especially for female applicants, but if you don't have the option to give those reasons excuses then you're left with lying (even if only by omission by fudging dates or doing an "experience based" cv which I think most employers see through to be honest) to your prospective employer or desperately hoping they'll understand.

@cherrypavlova you were desperately trying to sound like an understanding and open minded employer in that post until...

I’ve had people without MH illness who were flakey and needed to leave. Belied your true beliefs. They WERE NOT "flakey" they were ill! Their illness was too much for them to cope with plus having a job but it's insulting to assign a character flaw to someone who is ILL.

"Obviously for a job in retail, on an office reception, n sales , healthcare or in a call centre job you need someone confident and outgoing." Again not all mental illnesses manifest as lack of confidence or anxious behaviour.

"I would be concerned about sick days when employing someone with any health condition at all so would probably avoid it if I could to be honest" honest - and of course illegal. But it's a bugger to prove as I'm sure hoppinggreen knows and relies on.

As someone who's also been a "boss" and sat in on interviews I agree with those pps saying on occasion I've witnessed people very good at "doing" interviews but who to me were clearly over confident and not suited to the roles, on a couple of occasions I was overruled by colleagues and those decisions were very much regretted as the people hired were a bloody nightmare. Talked a good game but didn't follow through.

"I was the employee who was always there every Monday morning when the "extroverted" staff would call in sick (after a heavy weekend of partying!)" definitely been in that position! Even more frustrating when those people are promoted ahead of you, basically because they've become the boss' "drinking buddy" and not because of commitment to or ability to perform the job!

"which would show on your employment records/ references- employers use these too surely" not always. You're assuming the recruiters are competent - they aren't always

"This thread shows how much misunderstanding there is: people "eye-rolling" when they hear anxiety mentioned; people thinking that someone with anxiety can't ever be in a customer-facing role. Ignorant." Absolutely! We even have employers admitting they act illegally

"but we want an easy life" then maybe you shouldn't have become employers? Employers have a responsibility not only to the business but to their employees, if that isn't for you don't be an employer!

"The thing is that kind of illness where it impacts frequently is exactly why we have support for those not fit for work" have you any experience in accessing this? It's incredibly difficult. I'm on benefits, I'm severely affected plus I have a physical disability, I was initially rejected for both DLA and ESA. It was pure luck I was put in touch with a charity that had experience in dealing with this and how it worked. Most applicants with mh DX are initially rejected, it was revealed a few years back that there was an "unwritten" rule that all applicants applying on the basis of certain mh conditions should be automatically rejected. We're still (as a group) going through various levels of claimants getting backdated payments because claims were "wrongly handled", underpaid, not paid when they should have been etc this wasn't hidden discrimination this was open, institutionalised discrimination which I suspect those who don't have a DX or someone close to them with one still don't realise happened/is a continuing issue.

Treatment - cuts have had a very real, detrimental effect on ability to access treatment. Eg we haven't had a permanent psychology person here for I think 4 years? Even at GP level my GP surgery is struggling to provide enough cover.

Fibbke - a woman having time off for antenatal appointments and may leave and returning part time is pretty much exactly the same as an employee with mental illness experiencing a flare up and needing time off for appointments, perhaps a few weeks or months off to get back to better health, having a phased return to employment by initially being part time... Your supposed reasons for treating the mentally ill employee don't hold up. And if you then say "well they might have another flare up" well the other woman could well have several children - you're prejudiced against mentally ill at least admit it.

"Of course noone is going to name their employer! People are being honest as its an anonymous forum!" Ha! The hypocrisy!

HoppingGreens attitude may be appalling and illegal and clearly prejudicial but at least they're being honest about it!

"It's human and professional to chose the person who will fit best within the team." Its inhumane, unprofessional and illegal to assume someone won't fit your team purely because they have an illness.

@ An unpleasant tone and I believe you’ve misread. I think I said peoplewithout mental health issues who were flakey.

They weren’t ill; one was running their own business in work time. Another was off most Fridays and often on Mondays for no real reason. That’s flakey not ill.