Be honest -you wouldn't employ a person with certain mental health issues, would you?

[sportmax]

That's ludicrous- if they're competent and fit for the job - of course I would. That's what I imagine most people would say.
But I don't think people are really being honest with themselves.

What if the person had a mental health issue like social anxiety, would you still want to hire them? Probably not.

Without my family encouraging me to engage with therapy I would still be hiding away at home. At first I was taking so many tablets I couldn't see straight. Managed to get a review of my meds and started CBT then DBT. As I said still practice what I learned daily. Not saying this is right for everyone but don't dismiss it as impossible. You can learn new skills to manage your symptoms just as you learn new skills to manage your work load

I am not dismissing it at all. I wholeheartedly argree that MH is treatable in most cases through a combination of methods such as the ones you mention. What I am trying to say is that if more people understood how difficult it is to get to the point you are at now then it would really help them to achieve this. I actually think we agree but there is a huge gap between supporting people and telling them to get on with it. I think we don't agree on the approach and the reasoning behind it i.e people need to get help because they want to for themselves. It won't work doing it for other people, especially colleagues. Family maybe.

It is the same with anything. You have realise you need help and be ready to take it.

I’ve already improved. I used to keep my head down and my eyes fixed on the floor, I never smiled, never spoke unless necessary. Now I try to look at people and smile. I’ve memorised topics of small talk to trot out. People still notice I’m “off” and they feel uncomfortable. I’m trying really hard and I think I’m doing it right until someone feeds back that I’m not. Obviously getting help and trying isn’t enough, you need to pass for “normal” and I can’t.

Props for trying. I know when your mood is low it is hard to drag yourself out of bed in the morning let alone face the world and put a good face on.

There's a difference between expecting an employer to make reasonable accommodations, and demanding that they just put up with problems you are not making any attempt to manage. Some industries and some companies have a very social culture because that's the nature of the business: if you hate meeting new people and socialising in large groups 'that's not a good line of work for you. If you are neurodiverse, part of the support you should be getting involves learning how to fake social skills or work around the need for them.

"If you have a computer and an internet connection you can do all kinds of things. For people struggling to find a job due to employer reluctance, then self employment is the obvious solution" ooookaaay.

I don't have a computer and I'm out of kilter with the knowledge to know which would be best to buy, I don't have the space in my flat for a desktop computer it would need to be a laptop. I'm also limited in which retailers I can access due to being housebound and in a remote part of the country that not even all online retailers deliver to!

In addition I'm on benefits so money is tight, I would not like to make an expensive (to me) mistake in buying the wrong kit. It's also not just the computer, I've looked into several ideas and it's the software that gets disagreed on, as various different companies have different preferences and software isn't cheap either. I can't afford to have 4+ different packages in order to ensure I can use a potential employers preferred software.

Another factor is that I'm currently on legacy benefits and being strongly advised by those in the know particularly locally to aim to stay on them for as long as possible as UC - especially in relation to those of us on benefits mainly due to mental illness - is a fucking nightmare!

If I go self employed which I've never done before I have no idea whether I'll get enough work to bring in enough money to live on, but as soon as I go self employed I have to declare it and I would then be transferred to UC, there are regulations involved in being self employed and on UC initially which really worry me (therefore ADDING to me health issues, which could then make me unable to work even at home) if I were for some reason unable to get enough work/pay to support myself. I've also got no experience of dealing with hmrc and NI and all that as a self employed person and that makes me very nervous.

I've been trying to get advice on all this for almost 2 years, locally, national advisory agencies/charities, on here, on mh forum, on mse... And quite honestly nothing I've been told is reassuring and I've actually come across a good few others who've tried it and it hasn't worked for whatever reasons and they very much regret it.

Several of the so called "expert" agencies I've spoken to know less than I do about the potential issues with UC, impact on health etc

I also cannot cope with potential clients wanting to meet face to face either at home or of course elsewhere. I need everything to be manageable remotely.

The set up with the dwp re self employment is basically "if you can work self employed you must be able to work full stop" so I risk losing the "understanding" from them that I'm very limited in what I can do. Officially that's not what's supposed to happen, but frequently, again especially with the mentally ill it does.

There's a 12 month "leeway" for you to build your business then you're assumed to be earning the "minimum income floor" which is not a set amount but calculated on an individual basis. So again potentially dwp could say I "should" be earning X amount but if I'm not, then I won't necessarily receive enough support via UC to cover my living costs (which are far from excessive).

Nobody has been able to answer my queries as to what the likely min income floor I could be calculated at might be, not even a rough figure. So it's impossible to even formulate a rough plan.

So no - it's not as easy as "just go self employed"

"All I would say is don't fall into the trap of the con-merchants" you're absolutely right there! The vast majority of "work from home" "opportunities" are scams!

"And employers and other staff can learn how to deal with people who aren't quite like they are, i.e. those with anxiety, aspergers, introverts, etc. A lot of the workplace problems are that the other staff simply regard the Aspie or the introvert as weird and make fun of him, i.e. workplace bullying, and that is simply not acceptable. It's the 21st century and needs stamping out." Totally agree!

Why is it the people with the disabilities that need to adapt? When it's hardest for them?

"then your difficulties in getting out, getting a job and making friends are your own fault because you’re not trying hard enough." I'm actually experiencing that not only from people in relation to employment but from the very people who are SUPPOSED to understand and help me get better - my mental health team!

I've had roughly a third of all the MENTAL HEALTH hcps I've been assigned basically (and in a couple of cases quite literally) basically say I'm not trying hard enough, including 1 hcp who while I was sobbing, shaking and trying not to vomit I was so anxious, said I wasn't trying hard enough, that it suited me to stay sick!

NOBODY wants to feel anxious, depressed, isolated, unsupported, useless, letting their loved ones down... Every Fucking day! For years!

But yea I'll just "try harder" 🤔

Re extrovert/introvert side of things, I used to be an extrovert, I was an outgoing, chatty, confident person.

Until I became very ill.

Part of it is most definitely the illness side of things, but a large part of it is also because of certain people not even attempting to understand the difficulties I have in dealing with certain aspects of life.

Even when I was more extrovert myself, I never tried to make introverted friends take part or get involved in activities that made them uncomfortable or anxious. I maintained those friendships in a way that suited those friends. I find it very hard to understand why so many other extroverts seem to find this so difficult.

Bouquet - I'm so sorry that's happened, that's shit! I'm sure it's their loss too (literally as they'll now have the expense of recruiting someone else)

"It is the same with anything. You have realise you need help and be ready to take it." I've been BEGGING for the right help for over a decade now.

I've had issues with meds causing severe physical and mental symptoms which has meant I've had to stop taking meds that had until that point worked very well for me.

I've had cbt SUPPOSEDLY on 3 occasions - I've discovered only this week that the quality of that treatment and methodology used was likely incorrect and poorly executed. To the point I've thought cbt doesn't work for me.

I've had other talking therapies that have worked to a degree, but which I've plateau'd with.

I've had treatments suggested/recommended which are either only available privately and I can't afford or when I've done further research have discovered they're actually not advised for mh conditions as they can make matters much worse, which is last thing I need.

I was reporting to my cpn that the antidepressants I'm currently on I'm pretty sure are not only not working, but I suspect are making me worse. They're not ones it is safe to stop cold turkey but need very careful monitoring to come off. As I now don't have a cpn because my Mht think I'm not "trying hard enough" (though I've lately discovered that's not the official recorded reason) I'm on these pills, that are meant to be carefully monitored, with NO support. I have been BEGGING for anti anxiety meds, to try a different anti depressant or to add an additional anti depressant for over a year.

I have been BEGGING for a referral to the psychology dept for over a year, I was initially told it wasn't a service I could access because I am housebound and they don't do home visits or remote support. I've now been told this isn't the case and I'm on the waiting list, which is currently several months long, because the people covering the psychology dept don't only cover my COUNTY, but I believe an additional 2 COUNTIES.

But yea I'M the one not trying hard enough to improve my situation/health!

I am very strongly in favour of UBI (Universal Basic Income). Among its many good points is that introducing it would mean an end to the harassment and humiliation of people with mental or physical health problems who find it difficult to get or keep a job: if you have enough money to manage on, your health is going to be better and (if it's a MH problem) being freed from the constant stress about money will help you get better and work out what kind of job you might like and succeed in.

Yes

I guess I could donate my UBI to charity. I'm dead set against people like me getting UBI.

@lljkk how come? And, yes, donating it to charity is fair enough if you don't need it. But the idea of UBI is to stop the intrusion and discrimination and unfairness of the current benefit system where someone else gets to decide if you are deserving or undeserving poor...

About 80-90% of the people I’ve hired for my business have depression, anxiety and/or social anxiety - I also have severe anxiety so it’s not something that would ever put me off hiring someone.

I have been fired for having PTSD after my parents suddenly died though, so I do think some businesses are still a bit clueless about MH.

We have household income in the top 8%, Reanimated. It's outrageous that we should get a subsidy like a UBI payment. At least, I presume you didn't mean a means-tested income payment when you said UBI.

Tax breaks for having dependents & 2 adults' worth of personal allowance yes, I'll have. Otherwise, UBI is morally wrong for us. I don't see how UBI fits with progressive taxation; progressive taxation I believe in.

For UBI to work effectively it has to be universal. One of the ways to fund it would, of course, be to increase the income tax rate for the top 10%, but once it becomes accepted that there are conditions to recieving UBI then governments will start moving the goalposts and wasting money on snoopers and busybodies employed to 'make sure' that no one gets more than they should...

Well it won't work for me, then, will it. Coz I'll give mine away instantly. I'm offended that someone like Richard Branson /Miranda Hart / Alan Sugar would be able to claim, too.

"If you have a computer and an internet connection you can do all kinds of things. For people struggling to find a job due to employer reluctance, then self employment is the obvious solution"

I have a decent laptop and a good internet connection, I am self employed but not making enough money. I've had a look at a lot of solutions online but get very confused about it all and what's a good idea and what isn't.

To the person who said this, what are some good things to look into? I would really appreciate any ideas, I'm willing to work hard and work from home. Thank you. It would help a lot.