To think people on middle incomes are forgotten about?

[Squeezedout]

I am so upset tonight and just need to vent. I have always worked, as has my partner. We have 2 children who we could provide for until my industry pretty much collapsed and I had to find a less well paid job.

The cost of childcare and rent (south east) is absolutely crazy and I can’t keep up. I put in an application for universal credit that said we’d be entitled to a few hundred a month so have jumped through every single hoop, taken unpaid days off work to attend a job centre (the irony!)

Only to find out now (6 weeks after the initial claim) that we are entitled to roughly £4.50 a month.

On paper maybe we have decent salaries, combined with the rent and childcare we can’t even break even each month. I know we are not alone.

It seems in this country that if you are the poorest of society, you are helped (in terms of council properties with decent rent, council tax help, 2 year funding and everyday benefits as well as lots of media attention to the problem) to ensure you have enough to live on. If you’re the richest in society, you obviously don’t need help but the squeezed middle are just completely forgotten about.

I am NOT benefit bashing at all but It really doesn’t pay to work sometimes. I’ve calculated how much better off I’d be as a single mum not working in a council house and tbh I cannot keep taking out loans and am starting to think this is the only option to keep my kids fed.

AIBU to think the ‘squeezed middle’ are completely forgotten about in this country? And that it is fucked up that I can’t feed my kids on an average wage?

Well, I am a single mum and I work and I get a big fat zero, so it is not the case that single mums are all living in council houses and wealthy. I really do not believe that life on benefits would be worth losing my job for and in your case, also your relationship.

I do agree with you about earning too much to qualify for any help and too little to afford to live though. However, once your DC grow up a bit and you lose the childcare costs, things get easier.

Could you move to somewhere cheaper

It's difficult to imagine it's that bad that you can't put food on the table. Do you rent an affordable property close to work to save on commuting cost? Or work opposite hours to save on childcare?

Move somewhere cheaper if you can’t afford where you live now.

YANBU we both work in graduate jobs, our joint income is about £38k or thereabouts, but we live in commuting distance of one of the most expensive cities in the U.K., for cost of living at least. If we moved elsewhere we’d lose our family support network but we’d also not get similar jobs due to the fields we work in. We’re very lucky we have family help with childcare, otherwise we’d earn even less / be on benefits. The childcare voucher scheme is also a massive help to us but what a surprise, it’s being phased out for new joiners

It's ridiculous OP, so many hard working people that struggle to get by, even though they work every hour under the sun. It's not right.

@Cadburyegg there is a new tax free childcare scheme that had started to replace the childcare vouchers, may be worth looking in to.

Yes, you might be right, that there is a tipping point beyond which it might be cheaper to not work. But it's hard to move on from that, whereas your earnings might increase, you might move to a better paid job and so on. Childcare should get cheaper as your children get older, start school etc Sounds like things are tough at the moment and I hope you turn a corner soon.

I’m a single mum on a low wage

I only get a little help towards childcare no where near the 80% more like 20%

I worked out that if I worked 3 days a week I would be about 300-400 better off a month

It doesn’t make sense 😭

I agree with the concept of the "squeezed middle".

Very wealthy people have the means to get tax planning advice to enable them to keep proportionately more of their income compared to the middle earners. The middle earners are heavily taxed and not entitled to receive anything that's means tested. Therefore I believe it's the middle earners who prop up the "system".

Yes! We had this conversation this weekend. We’re middle people too. Not dirt poor, but things are tight! Very average earners (I’m minimum wage as work in a grossly underpaid industry) and we get no help. I’d be far far better off financially if o lived alone. I’m gutted I love him really 😂

It’s tough, but we moved up north and bought a very cheap house years ago and manage childcare mostly between us so limiting the amount we spend as much as possible.

@HobbyIsCodeForDogging I'm intrigued. I'm a chartered tax advisor (big four) and look after personal tax. I don't know what you mean. Tell me these planning ideas and I'll sell them to my clients - but they simply don't exist anymore to the extent you believe.

For what it's worth. I'm a single mum too. Work 5 days over 4. And weekends. It's bloody hard.

You have my sympathy op

We were in your position. Our son was put into full time nursery at 3mths old (8am-6pm) 5 days a week as neither of us earnt enough to cover all the bills on one wage.
Ah' the childcare costs...fuck me £700pm for the duration until he started school... I don't want to even do the maths, that was the hardest 5yrs of my life!!
£700!! just for the privilege to go back to fucking work.

Bitter? doesn't even come close as to how we feel. And this was 2007!! We never got a tuppence of help as we were borderline. yet others we know had money thrown at them. All it's done, is make us both very bitter and resentful to those who claim for fucking everything and then whinge it isn't enough!!

I don’t understand what’s difficult to imagine - Our wages come in and what goes out on a few days later is more.

Thanks, we did previously use childcare vouchers but was told you couldn’t apply for universal credit if you use those schemes so cancelled it all.

I wish it was as simple as moving but considering the times our work and childcare start/finish we can’t move further out, logistically. We don’t live lavishly, a standard 2 up, 2 down for the 4 of us.

I know eventually it’ll get better but for the meantime I just feel like I’m adding to piles of debt that then make it worse

I'm intrigued. I'm a chartered tax advisor (big four) and look after personal tax. I don't know what you mean. Tell me these planning ideas and I'll sell them to my clients - but they simply don't exist anymore to the extent you believe

To make it worth employing a tax adviser you need to be earning well into 7 figures. OP you need to define ‘middle incomes’, it will vary hugely depending on who you ask.

YANBU. We are in the same situation. It's so frustrating. Just chasing our tail the whole time. Adding to debt for every time something goes wrong as we have no ability to save as absolutely no excess income at all and not able to make a dent in to the debt we owe.
We were receiving a small amount of child tax credit but I have been working every bit of overtime...so now we owe all the tax credit back and have had the monthly amounts removed so basically I shouldn't do any overtime at all and I would be financially better off each month. What is the point!

I'm with you, we've worked since we were both 16 now 30 with a 1 year old and entitled to absolutely nothing. We have cut every bill possible our mortgage was less than our rent and we're still 100 short so DH has to do overtime every month to match it.
I had to leave my ft job and only work part time because full time childcare costs would have crippled us.
We applied for universal credit and entitled to £6.75 a month.

It's not that easy to just move to a cheeper area 🙄 our jobs are here family support is here and our area is already shut.

Oh! And to make things worse my sister who lives in a different part of the country and still gets tax credits while my area is universal. She makes what I make and her DH makes 1k more than mine. She received £500pm!!! That would totally sort us out every month. We'd be able to breathe save and have a bit of a life.

I had a mummy friend who worked in a restaurant, and I forget what her partner did. Private rented, ran one vehicle I think. Two kids. Used to think it was so awful they weren't eligible for help because they were just over the threshold. But then realised they were both jetting off on holidays abroad a few times a year, with or without the kids. That money came from somewhere. Even if you're having to live on beans and toast in order to save for amazing holidays abroad, that's not being poor.

My parents bang on about money 24/7, they always have. They've always made out they're too poor for this or that. I make a thing about not asking for money back for things I've bought them or whatever, because it's important for me to let them see how the odd pennies really don't fucking matter, specially between family.

They're not poor. And anyone paying into lots of insurance policies and pension pots while not touching certain assets because they're tied up in various investments or ISAs, are not poor. People doing that are merely keeping a proportion of their money for their future, their retirement or funeral, inheritance etc.

We have recently moved into our first mortgaged property. It's not much and is too small for us all but it's the best we could do. When you buy somewhere, you're pushed to pay into home and contents insurance, life insurance, etc. We also have ground rent and service charges. My OH has his pension and so on. We are really struggling, I am unable to work. If we ever couldn't afford to feed our family unit, the obvious thing would be to stop paying one or more of the policies we pay towards every month.

THIS is what all those people on benefits and in council houses don't pay towards. You cannot afford to. So it might seem like people on benefits etc have got all this money and it pays to not be working. But for all the years I needed help from benefits and a council property, I was unable to pay into anything towards my future, pensions, funeral care, anything. Couldn't afford to run a car without help. And even on disability I couldn't afford the treatments to help my conditions.

Those of us in our own homes, those OT you with your medium jobs etc, it might seem like you're worse off but you're not. You're in a very, very different situation.

Lol £251.77 is what I get a month as a single disabled person, it’s just not enough to live on. I’m lucky that I live at home with my mum otherwise I would be homeless.

Lolwhat Jez that is awful, do you not receive incapacity job seekers plus DLA.
Yanbu OP. Hopefully your lifestyle will pay off in the future, middle earner with DC definitely loose out in the earlier years.
It is worse here are middle earners are expected to pay GP visit at 60 euro, 100 for a&e, full books and school fees.
My Dsis and her partner are middle earners, they'll be settled and happier in the long run.
When you take childcare, travel costs to work, no tax credit, there isn't a huge difference from those working 15 hours claiming tax credits.

I agree; on theory we’re on decent salaries but after childcare, rent etc we have barely anything left. We’re also in a position where we don’t earn enough for one of us not to work to be home with the kids which makes me sad as I’d like the option.
The only way we’ve managed to afford a bigger house is moving to a different part of the country but that’s not easy and often just not practical; it was circumstances that made it possible for us

Ffs. She can’t move somewhere cheaper. In the south east there isn’t anywhere cheaper and why should she leave her connections friends. Kids friends.

This answer is ridiculous. I blame the govt

Middle earners need more tax breaks and the housing market needs sorting

MustBeAWeasly - The benefits system isn't supposed to be there to enable you to ''have a bit of a life''... it's supposed to be a safety net for people who would otherwise find themselves in extreme poverty due to circumstances outside of their control.

@HobbyIsCodeForDogging Like the chartered tax advisor says, what do you mean?

As far as I can see, if you're well off you pay 45% tax rate, there's no personal allowance, a 10k cap on pension contributions etc. Obvs no 30h at the nursery etc so the well off contribute massive amounts of money to the system - after all it needs to come from somewhere to give to people entitled to child benefit and other financial help.